How to convert me to your religion:

Heya, guys, I found this questionnaire, and thought it had a pretty good base to it, so I tweaked it and uploaded it. This is a list of a few of the problems I have with Christianity, and I absolutely welcome you to answer these questions for me. I’d like to make one for all the major religions, but I live in Alabama, so the only people trying to convert me are Christians, many of them my dear friends and family. I am what I like to think of as a freethinker: I don’t like to dismiss things offhand until I have all the evidence. :slight_smile:
Unfortunately, when it comes to religion, we never have all the evidence, so I cannot come to any positive logical conclusions, only negative ones (i.e.-this cannot be correct). I am the type of person who enjoys learning new things, so I encourage you to enlighten me if there is any new information you might have in regards to the questions I have. I have done years of research on the subject, though, so tired arguments do not work. I’ll be honest, this is really for getting people thinking- I do doubt that you will be able to answer them in a way which will convert me, since I know of no answers which will justify them. However, I thought it might be best to give anyone who will the opportunity. No :slapfight: answers, please. :smiley:

For all the unbelievers on this forum, this is a great questionnaire which you can download and tweak for your own purposes. :thumbsup:

scribd.com/full/18251545?access_key=key-15whdb9phcefmn9biei4

The link does not work for me…

That’s just too cute.

I’d answer the questions on the quiz if the person giving it to me would answer whether or not he had stopped beating his wife.

Some questions appear legitimate, but most, to use the lawyer’s observation, assume facts which are not in evidence.

Blessings,

Gerry

Hey, try going into a protestant (methodist) church and talk to the ministers, they would love to answer your crazy questions! ;):smiley:

xxx zundrah xxx

I’ll at least try because it answers the question ‘who is the God you don’t believe in’ which is a good place to start. I’ll send you an e-mail with however far I get (assuming the e-mail at the end of the link is accurate).

Hi Ideo,

Thank you for the offer. That’s a lot of homework you have assigned us. Here goes…

1) I have read the entire Bible two or three times I think. I have read the Protestant Bible which lacks seven books perhaps around twenty times I would guess.

#2) The serpent is lying when he denies that our first parents would not die. Adam and Eve lost their supernatural life immediately, as is evidenced from their hiding from God in fear, when they were used to communing with Him. And they began to age and eventually suffer a physical death that was also a result of their disobedience. No one, including Satan lies exclusively. There was a sense in which they knew, by experience good and evil through their disobedience. God is not a liar, in the day they ate thereof, they cut themselves off from that which they most longed for, union with God. This is a death, that if not remedied is far worse than physically dying.

As for Jeremias 20:7, the Scriptures record what he said. He was despondent. For our perfection God permits us to be tested and is merciful even when we say and do foolish things. In verse 9, the prophet declares that he will never more speak for God. But he changes his mind as explained in the same verse when he was inspired to continue. We are passionate, changable creatures, and Jeremias was experiencing a change of heart. By verse 11, he was once again proclaiming how God is with him “as a strong warrior”.

The context of Ezek 14:9 begins in verses 3-5 and is different in that we are dealing with obstinacy: Son of man, these men have placed their uncleannesses in their hearts, and have set up before their face the stumblingblock of their iniquity: and shall I answer when they inquire of me? Therefore speak to them, and say to them: Thus saith the Lord God: Man, man of the house of Israel that shall place his uncleannesses in his heart, and set up the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and shall come to the prophet inquiring of me by him: I the Lord will answer him according to the multitude of his uncleannesses: That the house of Israel may be caught in their own heart, with which they have departed from me through all their idols.

We agree that it is impossible that a good God should lie. The difficulty is verse 9 which says that “I the Lord have deceived that prophet”. At first appearance, this text seems a striking admission. In Hebrews it says that it is impossible for God to lie. How then may He deceive? What is the difference? I suppose the skeptic could say it is just a big blunder. But in context we may see that neither is God admitting, nor is Ezekiel claiming, that God is an out and out liar. So what is one plausible interpretation that removes the difficulty?

When God removes His light from those who continue in their free acts of disobedience, there is a passive, not active sense in which He “deceives”. But He need not, and does not actively send lies to anyone. This prophet needs no active help with believing lies. By refraining from giving correction to false prophets and leaving enemies of His people in darkness and confusion, the free will of the false prophet remains unviolated, while at the same time the resulting foolish prophecies which do not materialize are merciful signs for others to avoid the teachings of these who have rejected the statutes and commandments of God as revealed to the children of Israel (v. 11).

I think I saw a 100 word limit…Plus…I’m a bit bushed. My goal is modest with these kinds of problems. I did not become a Christian because of Ezek. 14:9! If that was all I had to go on, I would be looking elsewhere too. I didn’t prove that my interpretation is what is meant, but I think even if I was a skeptic, I might see that it is perhaps plausible. Doesn’t it seem unlikely that even if this is uninspired literature that this passage is about how God lies to His enemies? Why? It isn’t like people thousands of years ago loved liars. Anyway…gotta quit. Many thanks for your consideration.

Regards,

Rory

Hey Ideo…

Say…was I supposed to not post my answers here? I see someone else is intending to keep it private.

You mean the email suggestion in the post somewhere above? Maybe they already know each other? But hey, just post here anyway, don’t be shy, RoryMcKenzie! :smiley:

You do know this thing is 133 questions long :slight_smile: ?

It would not be possible to answer adequately in a post or two - in fact, many would be needed.

FYI, conversion is **not **based on knowing things. You were Christian once - did you never hear a talk on what the grace of God is & means & does ? If I had the knowledge needed to do so, I would not try to answer this questionnaire. Answeing it would only give you a pile of useless information - it would certainly not convert you. God dores that, by His grace.

Yes, the email address is accurate, friend. xD

I do not mind where you post the answers.

If you think that these questions are silly, perhaps you should print them out and show them to people who are not Christians (this includes Muslims, atheists, Buddhists, Jews… basically, well over half of the current world population, with room for variance). They may seem silly to you, but to people who are not “in on it” they take all the logic out of Christianity.

Yes, I realize it is long. And YES, I am absolutely serious about converting IF there are satisfactory answers to these questions. My doubt as to whether it can be done is a different matter, because I honestly do not believe that you can justify the violence and bloodshed that God commanded, nor the inaccuracies, inconsistencies, and just plain absurdities in the Bible any more than you can in the Quran or any other book written by Bronze age men sitting around a campfire tying to figure out where they came from while providing justification for slaves, controlling women, racism, running each other through, etc.

If you believe that the assumptions I have made are wrong, then please, correct them while using logical and truthful explanations, and not ignoring your own Scripture.

Oh, Rory, yep, a hundred words. Long answers are usually only for the purpose of confusing people. If you can’t say it in 100 words or less, it’s usually either too dogmatic or too illogical to say it in a few words. What is it that a famous Pascal saying? “I had no time to write you a short letter, so I wrote you a long one”, or something to that effect? I am an educated person- however, if God is so obvious, even a simpleton should be able to understand the argument. Keep it short and sweet.

Edit: this is not a conversation, it is a questionnaire. I’ve spent my entire life conversing with Christians (Alabama. You hardly ever see anyone who’s not), and I have yet to hear a convincing argument. In a conversation, they use the art of sidestepping my questions. I do not like my questions ignored nor sidestepped, and this way, neither happens. If it does, it is obvious and can be pointed out.

Also, it’s actually SHORTER now. lol The original was too long and contained questions that I thought were too obvious, like, “why did Jesus have to die?” which is easily answerable if you are in this religion. He was sin payment. Of course, I still think that an omnipotent god could say, to hell with the rules, I created them!.. but my Christian friends just say that even God has limits and then nervously change the subject.

Mr. Ideo,

This person that wrote this questionaire judging from some of the questions, I can tell is someone who is not sincere and just does not want to worship God and submit to Him.

That being said, judging from many of the questions that are problematic, the thing that is encouraging to someone who wants to believe in religion is that Islam does not suffer from many of the problems addressed. Perhaps you could write a similar (and shorter) questionaire on why you don’t believe in Islam and then maybe I could answer that.

This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;

Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;

And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and have the assurance of the Hereafter.

They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper. Qur’an 2:2-5

There is no need to refer to me as a “Mister” just because I am speaking with some sort of intelligence. I am a female, and, according to Islam, a lesser being for it. I will not worship a sexist God. Anyone who says otherwise is ignoring the Holy Quran’s words. I have not done as much study into the Quran, but I must say that it is just as absurd as the Bible. What I know is based off of actual verses, not American preconceptions, I assure you.

Islam suffers from the same problems as other religions- scientific discrepancy, moral absurdities and contradictions, violence mixed in with messages of the Ultimate Peace, claims of being the One True when it is no more valid than any other.

I really do spend too much time deconstructing these holy books, but if you would like me to send you the links to some of the scientific evidence against Islam, I can.

How do you expect us to convert you (as if we could) if you already harbor misconceived notions of the Bible?

Ms. Ideo,

I apologize for my mistake about your gender. I was trying to be respectful and I forgot to take that into account. You are not a “lesser being” at all and The God of Qur’an is not “sexist.”

Let me ask you a few questions:

  1. Do you believe that a Supreme Creator of the world and humans exists or not? Or are you an atheist? Or are you agnostic or other? If you believe that a Creator exists and He sends a Messenger then is it not a moral obligation to follow that Messenger?

  2. Do you believe that after this life on earth ends, that there is an afterlife? Or do you believe that after this life ends, that’s it we just go to dust?

  3. Do you believe that the injustice that happens on this earth will be ultimately be reconciled for or if someone does injustice on this earth and gets away with it, too bad so sad for the victim?

Abû Hurayrah relates in Sahîh Muslim:
The Prophet (peace be upon him) asked us: “Do you know who is bankrupt?”

We replied: “The one among us who is bankrupt is someone who has neither gold nor silver nor any provision.”

The Prophet (peace be upon him) then said: “Among my people, the one who is bankrupt is the one who – after praying, fasting, and paying charity – arrives on the Day of Judgment having cursed one person and slandered another, assaulted another, and misappropriated the wealth of someone else. Then those people will be given of his good deeds, and if his good deeds run out before redress is made, then some of their sins will be taken from them and put upon him. Then he will be cast into Hell.”

That is why we convert the lost, my friend! :wink: They have misconceived the whole message of Christ! :smiley:

O boy… o boy! You have got some hundred crazy questions in there!! Seems like you dug yourself into a hole- tough for us here to pull you out, you know?:blush:

Hmm, let me suggest…

Why won’t you swing by at Mr. Spong and inquire to gather more questions and make it like few hundreds more…
Then cross the atlantic to see Mr. Williams, too, for more out-of-this-world insights…:rolleyes:

Then, maybe, if you are still sane and can make a ***sincere heart ***out of your troubles… go ahead and swim across the Tiber. They’ll convert you there.:thumbsup:

The catholic church does not and will not ordain women, I would like to know why? :frowning:
But hey, the protestant and Anglican churches do ordain women! :smiley:

…or… Ideo could just walk into a church.

They need to have an open mind for that to happen (conversion), and from the disparaging response she just posted (to another poster) I don’t think she’s prepared to listen.

p.s. I also find the title of the thread offensive.

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