How to deal.

I am in a relationship with this guy, and we have made this commitment not to kiss until we get engaged. We were going to be engaged a month ago, but decided to wait because we felt it was what we had to do. But because of this commitment we made, it has been really hard to guard our purity. Almost like we couldn’t just kiss to show our love for each other, so we had to resort to other means. Things have gotten out of hand, and now I don’t know how to forgive myself. I want to blame him, but I know that I am just as responsible. I just want the simple love we once had back, but I’m not sure how to get there again. Does anyone have any ideas?

Guard against purity? Kissing before marriage isn’t sinful to my knowledge…or more likely am I missing something here?

I am more concerned about the other means you have resorted to.:o

Talk to a good priest, preferably in a confessional. There is absolutely nothing wrong with simple kisses. Evidently, avoiding kissing doesn’t effectively guard against going too far and may encourage it.

Hello :slight_smile: I read a book that suggested that in order to help keep “more serious” things from happening, people could wait to kiss until they were engaged, or until they were married even. Personally, I like kissing and I would sorta want to know if my future husband was going to be halfway decent at it… :slight_smile: That’s my opinion… but I can see the author’s point. Once you start kissing, then that can lead to deeper kissing which can lead to other thoughts and actions that aren’t where you want to be led if you are trying to stay pure before marriage.

What I would suggest is that you each take stock of your feelings and why you are feeling them. Is it lust? Or is it love? Check out Christopher West’s books and tapes about the Theology of the Body: christopherwest.com/store.asp. Depending on your situation, you should be able to find a resource there that can help you out. In a nutshell, he helps you sort out your feelings and remind you of what God intends for us… I’m not an old fogey… this stuff is really great. I promise you if you look into this and even listen to him speak or read a little about what our beautiful Church teaches on the subject of love and sex, you guys will be able to help yourselves…

Thanks. I have read all of Christopher West’s stuff. That is proabably one of the reasons that this bugs me so much. Purity and the real meaning of love and life and all that has totally become my life’s mission. To spread it to others and all that sort of thing. I think my next step is proabably to get him to read them. I never said that I thought kissing before marriage was wrong. I just decided that I wanted to save my first kiss for the man I knew I was going to marry. And that lead to saying that I wouldn’t kiss until I was engaged. Which proabably wasn’t the best commitment to make, just because it is so hard to love him so much and not be able to just give him a simple kiss. I guess my concience is just driving me nuts becuase theology of the body is so important to me, and then I can’t even just live it myself. :banghead: But God will help us through. Thanks for the advice everyone!

[quote=Psalm 37:4-5]Personally, I like kissing and** I would sorta want to know if my future husband was going to be halfway decent at it**… :slight_smile:
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That is exactly the reasoning that couples use these days for any and all physical intimacy before marriage! I suppose that ‘simple’ kisses (like between family or friends in many cultures) are not a problem, but intimate kissing (‘french kissing’) I think should really be kept for marriage as well. I mean when the Priest says “you may now kiss the Bride” that should be a really special moment; the first intimate kiss–and first intimate physical expression of love–that husband and wife share. That’s how I see it, and it seems the most orthodox.

I agree with you about kissing being something very special. This is why I didn’t want to kiss anyone until I knew they were going to be my husband. Now, I don’t think there is anything wrong with simple kisses in general, as well as apropriate forms of physical affection. (Hugs, holding hands etc…) My mom said that it is important for couples to make sure that they are compatible and do think that they have the physical attraction as well as just liking their personality. By no means is this permission to go beyond what is alright, just saying that having to stay on opposite sides of the room isn’t healthy for a couple.

[quote=ewee] By no means is this permission to go beyond what is alright, just saying that having to stay on opposite sides of the room isn’t healthy for a couple.
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But if sitting with each other in an empty room, house, car …is temptation too hard to resist “going too far”…Perhaps an exercise in some practical wisdom so as not to set yourself up for failure-avoid the occassions for sin, if you will. If I commit to no more late night ice cream eating for dietary reasons, but have slipped on occassion and raided the ice box, then, I need to 1) remove the ice cream from the house until it is permissible to indulge, or 2) until I can exercise enough self (mutual) restraint to not indulge before its okay to do so. My :twocents: .

This CA link for chastity before marriage is loaded with practical suggestions: pureloveclub.com/ .

[quote=Neithan]That is exactly the reasoning that couples use these days for any and all physical intimacy before marriage! I suppose that ‘simple’ kisses (like between family or friends in many cultures) are not a problem, but intimate kissing (‘french kissing’) I think should really be kept for marriage as well. I mean when the Priest says “you may now kiss the Bride” that should be a really special moment; the first intimate kiss–and first intimate physical expression of love–that husband and wife share. That’s how I see it, and it seems the most orthodox.
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Eeeek, you are right… a lot of people use that “I want to know if they’re good” rationale before getting married to justify premarital sex. I want to clarify that is NOT what I was intending to imply there. I was ONLY talking about kissing and I was saying I didn’t think kissing was a bad thing to do before marriage, engagement, etc. As long as it’s not creating a problem for wanting to continue doing other things to test the waters…

I want to start off by saying, “You’re definitely not alone.” My fiance and I kissed before we were engaged, which I don’t think is a problem. There have been times where we weren’t vigilant enough when guarding our purity… Nobody argues that chastity is easy, and here are some of the things I found to be helpful:

  1. Thank God for your sexuality, literally. Isn’t it awesome that you are sexually attracted to your future husband? Those are natural feelings God gave everyone, and we should thank Him for that. Those types of feelings don’t just begin on the wedding night. You’re supposed to be attracted to your fiance, and you’re supposed to be curious about physical intimacy. Of course after thanking God, I always ask Him to help me use those feelings in the correct way and wait until after my wedding. It helps me to acknowledge that there is nothing wrong with my feelings even though I shouldn’t indulge them or act on them.

  2. Talk with your fiance about how you’re feeling with the issue. I was terrified of talking with my fiance about it, but when I finally did, I found out he was feeling the same way and didn’t know how to bring up the topic. Talking about it allows you to both recommit to chastity 100%, and you’ll have the opportunity to express which “near occassions of sin” you find most difficult to resist so that you can avoid them together.

  3. Go to confession. Don’t let the guilt from these types of sins build up because it will just make it harder to resist next time if you’ve already got a couple on your conscience. Also, talking with the priest will give you an opportunity to clarify which actions/thoughts were actually sins.

  4. Start over. God forgave you in confession and you’re on the same page with your fiance. There’s no need to focus on past sins and feel overly guilty about them. God doesn’t want us to be perfect, He wants us to try our very best to reach perfection and when we don’t quite get there, He wants us to jump up and try again.

Now I’m going to have to go take my own advice…

God bless.

[quote=Psalm 37:4-5]Eeeek, you are right… a lot of people use that “I want to know if they’re good” rationale before getting married to justify premarital sex. I want to clarify that is NOT what I was intending to imply there. I was ONLY talking about kissing and I was saying I didn’t think kissing was a bad thing to do before marriage, engagement, etc. As long as it’s not creating a problem for wanting to continue doing other things to test the waters…
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I saw the comments on kissing and I would have to say I really love a great kisser. That can add so much passion to a marriage.
I’m with you here. This may sound odd, but the way someone kisses is such an important thing in my opinion. I have a huge problem with horrible kissers - it is very important in bonding I think. But as Psalm37 says, that rationale needs to have a limit somewhere and cannot be extrapolated to include premarital sex.

How ever it can be dog-gone hard to stop the kissing from generating stronger sexual thoughts or activities.

Keep asking God to help you with chastity. St Joseph, the Blessed mother and St Maria Goretti (sp?) can help as well.

Heh. Been there. Done that.

You’re both in a situation in which you really want to show your affection for eachother, but are finding it difficult to find ways to do it safely.

Never fear! The Eucharist is here! Both of you go to confession, clear off anything that you’ve done so far. Then stay out of eachother’s presence for a month or so… unless its to pray. That’s right, send yourselves to mass together, a prayer group if you can find one, EUCHARISTIC ADORATION TOGETHER IS HUGE, meet up to pray a rosary or something. When you’re not praying, its time to head your separate ways.

Its really hard at first. But it becomes a powerful way to share intimacy with eachother. And it re-builds the walls of purity that have been torn down.

Josh

[quote=threej_lc]Heh. Been there. Done that.

You’re both in a situation in which you really want to show your affection for eachother, but are finding it difficult to find ways to do it safely.

Never fear! The Eucharist is here! Both of you go to confession, clear off anything that you’ve done so far. Then stay out of eachother’s presence for a month or so… unless its to pray. That’s right, send yourselves to mass together, a prayer group if you can find one, EUCHARISTIC ADORATION TOGETHER IS HUGE, meet up to pray a rosary or something. When you’re not praying, its time to head your separate ways.

Its really hard at first. But it becomes a powerful way to share intimacy with eachother. And it re-builds the walls of purity that have been torn down.

Josh
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NICE POST!
Oh - yeah - I like saying the rosary togehter! I think God gives couples graces for praying together, going to mass together and Adoration.

Good ideas, Josh.

Wow. You have no idea how nice it is to hear that I am not the only one who has messed up and gives two beans. A lot of the time it feels like there are two kinds of people 1) people who do whatever they feel like and don’t care and 2) people who care and appear like they never mess things up. Thank you so much ElizabethAnne for your advice. We do talk about it, and recently we have both really been working a lot harder about understanding what does what in each others minds so we can avoid “turning eachother on”. I have always loved going to Mass with my bf. A priest once said that praying together and going to adoration together and stuff isn’t a good thing for people who are only dating to do becuase it is so intimate and bonding. But I think that it is a good way to keep God at the center all the time. This is really a very cool site. I love having other catholics to go to who are going through the same things I am. :thumbsup:

[quote=Neithan]That is exactly the reasoning that couples use these days for any and all physical intimacy before marriage! I suppose that ‘simple’ kisses (like between family or friends in many cultures) are not a problem, but intimate kissing (‘french kissing’) I think should really be kept for marriage as well. I mean when the Priest says “you may now kiss the Bride” that should be a really special moment; the first intimate kiss–and first intimate physical expression of love–that husband and wife share. That’s how I see it, and it seems the most orthodox.
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Maybe it’s just me, but I’ve always thought “french” kissing was pretty gross. Of course, when I brought up I didn’t go around sharing cups with others (if someone asked for a drink I’d give them the whole thing) so maybe that’s related somehow.

It isn’t that I was being pure; it’s just that I find it kind of gross, in our out of wedlock. To me a tongue looks about like a huge snail without a shell. Maybe if it were sauteed in butter I’d be more interested? No, I was plenty promiscuous before getting married, but never really “into” kissing. It’s like the appetizer I’d rather skip and get right to the main course. An ideal woman was one who would go to bed with me, without a lot of kissing.

Alan

I am glad this discussion is helping someone :slight_smile: I myself have enjoyed learning about different aspects/takes on this subject. It’s kind of tricky because what is a “turn on” for one person may not be for another so to give hard, fast rules isn’t always appropriate… although I would agree that french kissing (and I’m not a big fan of that myself - too wet! yak!) is much more intimate and could certainly be a stepping stone to other sexual activity.

When I was about 20, and dating who now is my ex-husband (annuled marriage), I went to a priest to ask him about how “far” we were supposed to go. What I remember him saying to me is that it is the “good feelings that are bad.” When I think back on that, I can see truth in that statement and also some untruth… I am sure he had good intentions, but considering some of the issues we had in our marriage, having the phrase from a priest in our heads: “good feelings are bad” wasn’t good. On the flip side, he was right.

It wasn’t about what exactly you were doing with each other physically (don’t get me wrong - there certainly ARE things you shouldn’t physically be doing with each other prior to marriage), but where your minds go when you do such things. If holding hands with each other is a bonding thing but doesn’t lead you to be aroused and think about having sex with each other, then great. That is fine. But for some people, maybe one or the other gets totally turned on from a simple touch on the arm and their mind jumps from that to being in bed together. I believe that is what that priest was trying to say to me, but in my naivete (sp?), I don’t think I really got that.

It’s wonderful that you (eewe) and your boyfriend are asking about this and looking for guidance!!! I’m proud to know of you!

I’m offering my experiences and thoughts, not as Catholic rules per se but as what I’ve learned. I’m trying to be a good Catholic myself and can understand how the human element factors into our lives, even when we’re trying hard to do what God wants. I think that’s what the others here are trying to do too, so I hope it’s helping :slight_smile:

[quote=ewee]Wow. You have no idea how nice it is to hear that I am not the only one who has messed up and gives two beans. A lot of the time it feels like there are two kinds of people 1) people who do whatever they feel like and don’t care and 2) people who care and appear like they never mess things up. Thank you so much ElizabethAnne for your advice. We do talk about it, and recently we have both really been working a lot harder about understanding what does what in each others minds so we can avoid “turning eachother on”. I have always loved going to Mass with my bf. A priest once said that praying together and going to adoration together and stuff isn’t a good thing for people who are only dating to do becuase it is so intimate and bonding. But I think that it is a good way to keep God at the center all the time. This is really a very cool site. I love having other catholics to go to who are going through the same things I am. :thumbsup:
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That sounds like good progress. My oldest daugther has always been very wise on teachings and is committed to chastity, and has been very open, but as she gets a little chance I think she’s pushing her luck.

It is saying nothing about “trusting” her or her boyfriend. It’s just that young healthy bodies are built such that there’s like this stronger-than-gravity attraction that inflicts the mind with a built-in bias. It’s like you put the ingredients for a cake in the same room together and before you know it – whoop! – somebody mixes them all up and throws them into the oven before you were ready to bake!

Alan

[quote=Neithan]That is exactly the reasoning that couples use these days for any and all physical intimacy before marriage! I suppose that ‘simple’ kisses (like between family or friends in many cultures) are not a problem, but intimate kissing (‘french kissing’) I think should really be kept for marriage as well. I mean when the Priest says “you may now kiss the Bride” that should be a really special moment; the first intimate kiss–and first intimate physical expression of love–that husband and wife share. That’s how I see it, and it seems the most orthodox.
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It’s sad that people feel the need to “test others out”. I even heard people refer to others as being a car that they need to “test drive”. How cold and heartless. I too have spent my life with the mindset that I would wait until I am married to kiss the one I love. There are times in my life where it is tough, but it feels good to know that I am waiting for something that others take totally for granted.

People too often get the idea that we MUST have sex and physical intimacy. We need love, yes, but we already get that from God.

If you’ve done something regrettable, go and confess if it is a grave sin, then just go and never do it again. Don’t beat yourself up about it. Just know that God has forgiven you and that you have a clean slate to start with. God knows I have regrettable things, we all do. The important part is you confess with a repentant heart and try your best to not sin again.

Haha. I really liked your cake annology. Yeah, I sound similar to your daughter.(AlanFromWichita) Purity has always been so important to me, and I have always talked with my mom about stuff like that, so as things have been bugging me I felt so terrible because I know that my parents would trust me in any circumstance. But now, it just gives me even more reason to work at it.
And in response to the whole french kissing is gross thing. Yes, I agree, just looking at it as we are now, it is very nasty. But then, I always thought the concept of any sexual behavior was really just more than I could handle. I mean, have some one see me without my clothes off, no thanks! But love does wierd things to you, and it just becomes the natural inclination for some reason. Just kinda wierd.
Anyway, I know this isn’t the place to ask this, but I figure that I’ll just stick it with this. My b/f and I were discussing this and I want to poll all the guys. Do you think that nail polish in general is gross or pretty? I’d appreciate full honesty because this is a very serious survey! Thankee! :tiphat:

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