Um - so, we’re born “saved,” except if we don’t get “saved”? :rolleyes:
The mentally impaired who are bpatized and are incapable of mortal sin certainly go to Heaven. Why shouldn’t they?
What is more astounding than people who believe in Limbo are the amount of people who don’t believe that Baptism saves.
Remember what Jesus said “For in the measure that you mete out justice it will be meted unto you.”
Just ask yourself Would it be Just for a Baptized person who doesn’t mortally sin to Not to go to Heaven?
Of course Not!
I am the one who voted “by praying to Mary”. To Jesus, through Mary. However, I have also made the Heroic Act Of Love to Mary, for the Poor Souls, so must undergo my full time in Purgatory.
If Baptism does not save how do you explain this passage for* 1 Peter 3:21*
21 This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an appeal to God * for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ (NAB BIble)
21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ (RSV Bible).*
and why did Jesus said this after his resurrection.
16 And the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And seeing them they adored: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. 19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world. (Matthew 28:16-20)
Or what Peter preached in Acts Chapter 2 verse 37:
*37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, "**Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him." 40 And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” 41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls. 42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.
Your own words put you at odds with Scripture, xfrodobagginsx.
To get to Heaven when you die, you must repent and be baptized in the Name of the Father, And of the Son and Of the Holy Spirit. You also must live a Christian faith by living out the Ten Commandments by keeping into mine your love for God, and your love for your neighbor.
For someone who advocate Scripture Alone, he is apparently ignore these important passages in the Bible. :shrug:
<<Immersion is the correct mode. Head in water (represents His death, burial) head back out of the water (represents His resurrection)
Why are you so concerned about the mode of something that has no bearing on your salvation? >>
That’s one of the things that ran me out of the Baptists.
Sunday morning: One had to be baptized by immersion with 100 proof texts.
Sunday evening: Baptism had nothing whatever to do with salvation with 100 proof texts.
Yes, I had been taught both all my life, but that was the first time they were ever juxtaposed.
SPLIT: Non-catholic Communion Vs The Eucharist
So, Frodo, where are ya now?
We have a chance to get back on topic here and try to resolve this soteriolgical issue of yours.
I’m curious as to whether you’ll actually consent to carefully and prayerfully read The Catholic Controversy" as was suggested to you.
It would probably help clear up some of the mistakes in understanding the Catholic faith that you have displayed so far.
How do you get to heaven when you die?
… turn left at Albuquerque
still waiting for replies, I won’t let you get out of this one tough guy:
Okay, my time is up again, and I still haven’t gotten to the end. Marking my place again, and although further discussion is best on a new thread, I thought I would quote my favorite Bible verses.
(I know someone else probably already has, but I just love these verses!)
21] Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you."
22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
23] If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
And from the Catechism of the Catholic Church
Only God forgives sin 1441 Only God forgives sins.39 Since he is the Son of God, Jesus says of himself, “The Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins” and exercises this divine power: "Your sins are forgiven."40 Further, by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name.41
39 Cf. Mk 2:7.
40 Mk 2:5,10; Lk 7:48.
41 Cf. Jn 20:21-23.
When a person heals another through prayer or laying on of hands, we know that God is the one who recieves all glory and honor. But the bible is filled with example showing that God has chosen to heal people through people. Doesn’t change whom the power came from and who the glory belongs to.
I would love to further discuss confession in a new thread:) Place a link in this thread, or a PM since it seems as if I will never get to the end of this thread:o
As my priest said this Sunday:
If Christianity was just about getting your little soul into heaven that would certainly make it a petty thing. It‘s not just all about you.
I picked other because ALL of these things get you to Heaven. Jesus by his death and resurrection opened Heaven for us and continues to give Himself through the Blessed Sacrament. Mary brings us closer to Jesus through her powerful intercession and prayer. If you bow to Christ, you’ll bow to the Church that Jesus founded–the only one (besides Orthodox) to give us His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity.
Faith alone and now baptism doesn’t save.
How many different ways does can a “bible Christian” 100% contradict scripture and still be called a “bible Christian”?
You seem to divorcing the FAITH that is present during baptism.
Would baptism, and the mumbling of words save anyone without faith in Christ? No. But that is not what Catholic teaching is. You can’t divorce the faith in baptism from baptism in the Catholic teaching. That your denomination has done so does not mean that the Catholic Church has done so. Please try to understand that.
Wonderful Apologetics from everyone but here is a very simple answer to the Question of Assurance of Salvation. (Sorrry if I’m repeating stuff already said I read most of the posts but not all)
When someone like the original poster asks a Catholic if they are “Saved” what they really mean is “Don’t you wish you had the assurance of Salvation like me.”
The Original poster stated that You need to make Jesus Lord and Savior of you life and
DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS AND ROSE FROM THE DEAD FOR YOUR SINS? DO YOU ACCEPT WHAT HE DID FOR YOU TO PAY FOR YOUR SINS?
That is True. That is necessary for Salvation. The problem is an individual can truly believe that with all his heart at one point in his life then totally not believe later in life.
Here is the conundrum. John (name used for example) gets “saved” according to original posters method. John Believes with all his heart Christ died for his sins and repents and accepts Jesus as his Lord and Savior- says prayer and makes commitment to Christ. For 10 years he is an awesome Christian. He believes he’s saved, those around him believe he’s saved. Then he begins to backslide (no problem here it happens to all Christians from time to time. Not unsaved yet) but then John has some sort of life crisis where everything he once believed he no longer believes. I’ve seen it happen over and over again. So John now no longer believes that Christ died for his sins and completely with free will lets say converts to a pagan religion.
What ordinarily happens is people like original poster would say he wasn’t really saved. But here’s the rub HE THOUGHT FOR 10 years HE WAS SAVED. The People around him thought he was saved. So if you can think you are saved and then fall away there is no assurance. I could be like John. (However I personally feel that my relationship with Christ is so tight I would like to think that that would never happen to me and I have good assurance I am not in mortal sin and that I am would get to heaven if I were to die today) But I could be like John in my example, and anyone else claiming to be saved at present could end up like John.
The criteria the original poster used said Salvation was contingent on belief. the Fact is belief can change! People have free will. I know people who have truly believed with all there heart that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior and then for what ever reason turn their back on him.
Christ can truly keep those that are his but he never keeps someone againt their will.
My view of the situation, and why after being protestant for over
20 years I am in RCIA
PS: I hear more straight scripture read every Sunday in the Catholic church than I ever heard in a protestant Bible church and the scripture read reflect the whole of scripture not just the Pastors personal favorites (Those favorite pet scriptures of the Pastor that usually support his personal view point while leaving problematic scriptures out)
OK That was way more than my 2 cents.
Absolutely!! We are here for the glory of God.
Again, I have had to prune this thread of off topic posts concerning Communion…(they will return shortly in their own thread, so please stand by if that was something you were into.)
The topic of this thread is “How To Get To Heaven When You Die”.
Please stick to that…
I was thinking of clicking that one to get the OP all rilled up, but in truth when you follow the teachings of the Church you’d have a great respect for Mary.
“The Church” is the universal sacrament of salvation instituted by Christ. People that place Jesus against the Church are setting up a false dichotomy.
That’s exactly right! It’s a good thing that I have placed my faith in Him for salvation and believe that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for my sins. Yes, I know Him personally. We need to do what the bible tells us to do and that is put our faith and trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. All that other stuff is not for salvation, it’s because you are saved. Threre is a big difference.
Knowing Him personally is never enough to be saved. What is needed to be saved? It is knowing and obeying Him–it is both, not either or. Many proclaim Jesus and yet continue to sin–are these saved as well?