How to help gay or gender questioning individuals compassionately

No wonder people are prime candidates for the “LGBTQ Pride” movements. For a long time having a same sex attraction, or not being sure of one’s gender identity made a person feel lonely and fearful and an outcast. Who could they go to for help? It would be so embarrassing to talk to clergy or family or friends if a person felt like a freak of nature. The pro-gay support groups often got there first before Catholic/Christian ministries really saw what was happening. So now even though there are groups like Courage and Encourage they are looked upon with suspicion.

To reverse this, Catholic parishes and Protestant churches that still hold to the traditional view on these issues need to make it well known that there are resources, that no one will treat someone with these heavy crosses to bear as a freak, that people should be working on overcoming the “ewww factor” not so they will turn around and say homosexual activity or sex change operations are okay, but just enough so that people, especially young people, won’t feel like they have to suffer in silence or else go to the pro-gay culture to find acceptance.

It would be impossible for me to agree with you more than I do. Well said. We need to work as a Church and the community that we are to offer the hope many of these people are desperate for.

Yes, what an eloquent post. I agree.
Mary.

Apologista,

So then how does this happen?

What does someone advise someone to do?

Do you imagine that there are those that want help can’t find help?

Do you believe that promoting the truth that Homosexuality is not fixed would help?

Do you believe that opposing silencing those that want to provide any therapeutic help aids your cause?

Hi Coptic, :wave: I’ll respond the best I can but I’m not sure I understand all of what you’re asking so I’ll ask for clarification where I have difficulty, okay? Hope I don’t sound dense, it’s just that some of the wordings seem like they could be read more than one way.:blush:

Does “this” refer to how do we get Christians to do more outreach and so on? I guess the first step would be to educate the pastors and maybe influential members in the church - catechists, etc.

Is the 1st “someone” the church member and the 2nd “someone” a person struggling? Or do the “someones” refer to something I’m not picking up on?

There are people with these issues who either won’t learn that morally correct help is available if it isn’t publicized first in a general way within the churches, with an anonymous way to get started, and also a supportive community. And if the person has been influenced too much by the pro-gay movement they might have a mistrust of Christian-based information on the subject.

By “not fixed” do you mean that it isn’t a fixed part of who the person is, that it can be reversed? Or do you mean that it can’t be “fixed” in the sense of healed, reversed, changed?

I’m really kind of lost here. I’ll just say that I am for the therapeutic help. The world isn’t though, and it’s regarded with suspicion. That’s a trend I would like to see reversed. And I think churches and their members could help in that.

Apologeze,

So, is it your belief that our Pastors lack understanding and the Catechists are blind to this issue?

The Catholic Church does not deny membership to anyone. Many Protestant churches do…Are you aware of any Catholic Church that has a neon sign that is blinking on and off…No Vacancy for sinner?

You categorize people as swayed one way or the other by groups. Do you believe that a person is that weak minded that a group causes them to believe one way or another…ie…a person thinks because of a group or a person has a belief and finds a group that supports that belief…think about those that come to the Catholic Faith in spite of obstacles…like how many Protestants come via how many different Churches seeking the truth…do you believe that the mind of a Homosexual is that weak or perhaps does not seek the truth?

Homosexuality is not now or ever been “fixed”=immutable…there is always change possible when change is desired.

The problem with therapeutic help is that the LGBT groups, sad misinformed Catholics from the USA, Canada the United Kingdom and Singapore espouse that…

Homosexuality is fixed
The only counseling for Homosexuality is acceptance

Without one ounce of scientific evidence…this creates a problem because within our own ranks, here on CAF you will see Catholics espousing the LGBT agenda…

I think it’s a little uncharitable to claim that change is a guarentee if you just want it hard enough. It reminds me of my Evangelical in-laws who claim te sick would be cured if only they Loved jesus more. There are a great many Christians, even here on CAF, who choose to live a celibate life, yet still struggle with SS desires. I think simply telling them, you could change if you wanted to, is quite the slap in the face! Maybe some can. Maybe some can’t. With all the different issues and factors that can affect someone into having SSA, I think it does no good to champion one blanket reality.

Honestly it sounds like you’re putting words in the OPs mouth by asking if they somehow think the church doesn’t already teach this. If you think homophbia, and I mean REAL homophobia, not just what the LGBT agenda says homophobia is, doesn’t exist, you haven’t been looking very hard. i KNOW Catholics who think gays should all rot in Hell. Someone just posted that they think Gays should go livein California and get hit by an earthquake. Where I live, gays are called F*gs, queers, A** eaters, and all kinds of hateful things. That’s not helping anyone now, is it? The CHURCH teaches truth. but, like with just about all hard issues, it rarely TEACHES ITS PEOPLE the truth.

The advice of Jesus is the best, of course.

Matt 6:32-7:1
33 But strive first for the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

34 "So do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring worries of its own. Today’s trouble is enough for today.

Most persons suffering from SSA or “questioning” become pre-occupied with “solving” or figuring out their sexual orientation and what they are going to do about it. Instead, if they seek first the Kingdom, everything else will fall into place. This is particularly difficult for young people with raging hormones and a strong drive for intimate relationships. They tend to put satisfying their carnal desires above the spiritual. This condition is not restricted to persons with SSA!

No need to imagine. I have met them personally.

Are you saying that you accept this assertion as “truth” or are you repeating the secular viewpoint?

What does “fixed” mean?

Perhaps you are talking about the ban in California on conversion/reparative therapy? If so, that is only a very specific intervention and applies only to minors.

People have an “ewwwww” factor??

How to help them? Love them, as you would any other sister and brother.

My dear Oblate,

The advice of Jesus is the best, of course.

Advice believed is different than advice accepted and understood. I agree that this is the best advice. Sadly we have Catholics demonstrating in the world and on this thread less than understanding of this advice.

Most persons suffering from SSA or “questioning” become pre-occupied with “solving” or figuring out their sexual orientation and what they are going to do about it. Instead, if they seek first the Kingdom, everything else will fall into place. This is particularly difficult for young people with raging hormones and a strong drive for intimate relationships. They tend to put satisfying their carnal desires above the spiritual. This condition is not restricted to persons with SSA!

The dilema that anyone faces in life is difficult to generalize however there are resources and for that I suggest the Catholic Medical Association, Homosesuality and Hope…

catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/ho0039.html

**2) Same sex attraction as a symptom **

Individuals experience same-sex attractions for different reasons. While there are similarities in the patterns of development, each individual has a unique, personal history. In the histories of persons who experience same-sex attraction, one frequently finds one or more of the following:

Here they quite accurately suggest that SSA is a symptom that has many determinants that will vary and cannot be generalized by our personal encounters and for that reason this varied list is worth looking at…

Are you saying that you accept this assertion as “truth” or are you repeating the secular viewpoint?

What does “fixed” mean?

You may not be familiar with the Propaganda machine of the American Psychiatric Association, the DSM changes and subsequent move to Fundamentalize thinking…and it is best to review the Catholic Medical Association, same link that says this…

**1) Not born that way **

Catholics believe that sexuality was designed by God as a sign of the love of Christ, the bridegroom, for his Bride, the Church, and therefore sexual activity is appropriate only in marriage. Healthy psycho-sexual development leads naturally to attraction in persons of each sex for the other sex. Trauma, erroneous education, and sin can cause a deviation from this pattern. Persons should not be identified with their emotional or developmental conflicts as though this was the essence of their identity. In the debate between essentialism and social constructionism, the believer in natural law would hold that human beings have an essential nature — either male or female — and that sinful inclinations — such as the desire to engage in homosexual acts — are constructed and can, therefore, be deconstructed.

It is, therefore, probably wise to avoid wherever possible using the words “homosexual” and “heterosexual” as nouns since such usage implies a fixed state and an equivalence between the natural state of man and woman as created by God and persons experiencing same sex attractions or behaviors.

Concerning the following…

Perhaps you are talking about the ban in California on conversion/reparative therapy? If so, that is only a very specific intervention and applies only to minors.

It is only part of the agenda to normalize Homosexuality that commenced with the removal of Homosexuality from the DSM that was by vote and not by science. To start with demolishing NARTH, as you can imagine, National Association for Research and Treatment of Homosexuality…the very existence is ringing in the heads of those that oppose their agenda…

Silence therapy for adolescents and then the next is silence them altogether…perhaps you may not see this as a wound with intent to kill the opposition…if you don’t see it then you don’t see it…it is real…it will fail…If therapy for adolescents can be stopped then the next step is therapy all together for whatever reason…

Personal, empiric information is always helpful when coupled with fact…

My dear Oblate,

You may want to think about Church Documents, The Bishops of the USA statements and Church teaching as it regards all sinners…then I suggest you brace yourself for the bigger picture…I have been in the medical-legal arena and know an agenda when I see one. I know when there is a bias when I see one. I am an expert is sifting medical-legal documents and these supporting documents stink of bias that any judge will see.

Go here…

ca9.uscourts.gov/content/view.php?pk_id=0000000635

**Pickup v. Brown, 12-17681 and Welch v. Brown, 13-15023

SB 1172 - Sexual Orientation Change Efforts**

First read this…

cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/general/2013/01/14/12-17681_opening_brief.pdf
**
PLAINTIFFS-APPELLANTS’ OPENING BRIEF**

Then wade through all of those that are ganging up to try to stop Nicolosi…in particular read Jack Drescher’s brief where he falsely states that SOCE used electroconvulsive therapy…that NARTH never used, however to cause a negative opinion…

After you read all of these reports, honestly ask yourself if it is only a case for minors or a case to continue to promote the American Psychatric Association Agenda…

The secular world has gone mad…

thenewamerican.com/culture/item/11640-former-apa-president-says-homosexuals-can-change

And it passed the Council of Representatives. And that was the first issue that came up. I also said with that, that the APA, if it passes this resolution, will also vote to continue research that demonstrates whatever the research demonstrates. Unbiased, open research. It was never done.

During this time at the top of APA, Cummings said, the headshrinkers’ group adopted the Leona Tyler Principle, which mandated scientific proof for the organization’s public positions. That principle was “paramount,” he said.

Cummings said the APA “abided by the Leona Tyler principle. All of the sudden things began to change as things became more political than scientific” and the principle “disappeared.” “The principle was never withdrawn,” he said, yet it is nowhere to be found in the “annals” of the APA and “was absolutely forgotten” by the mid 1990s. Politics rule science at APA, he said, with its members “cherrypicking results” to fit their leftist political ideas. A search of the terms “leona tyler” at the APA website does not return results.

He said the “gay rights movement sort of captured the APA.”

The LGBT have filed cases in New Jersey against Jonah, there is a case filed in Washington…and this will be an ongoing legal battle to silence anyone that disagrees with the Homosexually driven American Psychatric Association…but please recall that

Alcoholism…a disease according to the AMA, a disorder according to the APA, and as you have seen the 12 steps/religion in action is promoted by the AMA…and

Habit according to SMART, St. Jude, St. Gregory, Stanton Peele, Phd, Reid Hester, Ph.D…and they deny disorder, they deny disease and no one can silence them and promote treatment for a habit that is not a disease…

This testament to the ability to have a different point of view is protected by law…

If anyone protests that any therapy that is religiously oriented for Homosexuals should not be done and not promoted will have to address the AMA website that promotes the 12 step religion for Alcoholism.

If anyone says that Reparative Therapy has a dismal success rate then they will have to compare and contrast the scientific evidence that AA has less than a 5% success rate and yet is promoted by the AMA.

I agree that the Catholic Church should be a bit more upfront about how good it is to people with my predicament.

I’m homosexual and I understand and accept Catholic teaching on homosexuality even though I don’t live by it. All the priests I have spoken to have been tremendously supportive and understanding, while at the same time helping me understand that my conduct is sinful and that I need to live chastely to be in good standing with the Church and to be able to receive Communion.

At least in my experience, the Catholic Church has not rejected me or made me feel like a freak, and I am really grateful for that, and I hope that I will be able to live a chaste life in the future.

In the meantime, I feel amazed at how welcome I have been. Nobody has ever chased me out of any church I’ve been to, and even knowing how far I am from the Church in terms of conduct, the priest at my parish even asked me to read at Mass.

So as a gay guy, one of the bad, unchaste ones too, I have nothing but praise and gratitude to the Catholic Church. If only more people knew.

Carl,

You should feel proud that you can accept that you too are a sinner. Look at how many postings we have about “help me with my masturbation” or “is it wrong to fornicate”…who is free from temptation…? No one…

Thank you for your honesty…:slight_smile:

Mary,

This was difficult to understand, so I pulled it out of the quotes…you said…

**I’m so happy you feel that way about your experiences in the Catholic Church and any church;
I wish all could feel as you do. Of course you should read at Mass: Heck it’s a world limping in sin; heterosexuals are engagning in premarital sex etc and our priest said
'it’s an equal opportunity celibacy rule" Good point I thought.

Mary.
Welcome to the forums. **

CopticChristian, MaryT777, thank you for the warm welcome.

It goes to reinforce my belief that the people who talk about “hate” with reference to the Catholic Church and Christians in general really don’t know what they’re talking about.

God bless you guys.

CopticChristian

Im afraid i have to say that you are a sad, sad man, mr Coptic.

with the removal of Homosexuality from the DSM that was by vote and not by science

How convenient of you to remind us of all this.

And you know why?

Because it is really bad for you and your lies

As it turns out it was obscurantists opposing removal of homosexuality from DSM who INITIATED VOTING PROCESS when they found a loophole in APA’s founding documents. They LOST 3 times scientific debates since they didn’t present any evidence to support their outdated and ridiculous theories and then they turned to POLITICS. And the LOST yet again

But of course you wouldnt specify any details on this whole voting procedure. It would be really embarrassing for you.
You know why?
Because you are Catholic. You are supposed to follow Christ rules. DO NOT LIE.
Yet i find more and more lies coming from you these days and in almost all your posts.

How does it work exactly? Im really curious.

rainbowallianceopenfaith.homestead.com/TVC_APA.html A detailed review of Ronald Bayer book, Homosexuality and American Psychiatry that clearly identifies astonishing lies coming from conservatives.

. To start with demolishing NARTH

It would serve the world only good once it is ridden of a small minority of anti-science and anti-nature scoundrels who cause grave harm to teenagers who fell victim to their parents anti humane views and beliefs.

Lana,

You have no idea how sad I can get, how much sadness I have experienced…what baffles me is that how is it you could have known about any of my sadness…but it is welcoming to know that you understand sadness.

Please show me the loopholes, the debates over science so I and others may read them.

What is it you believe to be a lie. There are many that have left the American Psychiatric Association because of this issue and still believe that the DSM was politically generated. I am not alone for if I were, then I would doubt. As it is I have not doubt.

What will you do when you realize that NARTH will not go away because of 3 issues…

  1. Freedom of Speech
  2. The Right to have a Viewpoint
  3. Client Self Determination

If the AMA can say Alcoholism is a disease and promote religion in AA and on the other side of the coin many deny that Alcoholism is a disease and do not promote religious treatment and they have the right to speak and act then you will find that…

Homosexuallity is normal and the only counseling for Homosexuals is acceptance based on the DSM that the APA removed

across the street you will find

Homosexuals seeking help should have help to change if they so wish and it may be a Personality Disorder or Character defect, no matter, because the DSM is not a Gospel and the APA cannot dictate anyone’s thinking and those that want help should get help

And if you recall Billy Jack…when he kicked the guy in the face…he told him he would do it before he did it and then said…

and there is not a single thing you can do about it…:slight_smile:

Somehow it seems the thread is getting off topic . . . :confused:

Apologista,

You are correct, but recall that Billy Jack stood up for those that could not stand up for themselves, he put himself in the way of those that tried to force their way of life and thinking on others and in that regard we should reach out and not let anyone say that we cannot help anyone questioning their sexuality with compassion…

Listen, children, to a story
That was written long ago,
'Bout a kingdom on a mountain
And the valley-folk below.

On the mountain was a treasure
Buried deep beneath the stone,
And the valley-people swore
They’d have it for their very own.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won’t be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after…
One tin soldier rides away.

So the people of the valley
Sent a message up the hill,
Asking for the buried treasure,
Tons of gold for which they’d kill.

Came an answer from the kingdom,
“With our brothers we will share
All the secrets of our mountain,
All the riches buried there.”

and no one will stop anyone from sharing the richness of the treasures of the Church to anyone that wants them and than includes Prostitutes, Pornographers, Adulterers and Homosexuals…

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