How to keep calm ?

Hi,

Last time I had a debate with protestant it was pretty hard to stay calm, cause he always used provocative phrases and changed topics all the time.

infant baptism

I repeatedly said (at least 5 times) that the Catholic Church teaching is that faith is also mandatory for salvation. However the protestant still claiming that you need faith for salvation and the Catholic Church does not teach it, because it baptizes infants.
When I laid out the bible verses which graces god gives through water baptize (example Tit 3,5) the protestant says it is not the water baptism but it is the baptism in the holy spirit. What can I answer, when a protestant distinguish between water baptism and baptism by the Holy Spirit? What is the difference anyway?

The protestant said that the church get already corrupted on the infant baptism topic at the beginning of the 1. Century and he is not interested what the church fathers teaches or if the first Christian practice infant baptisms or not (cause of course infant baptism is against the bible). He even said, that if he would like to have as many members of the church as he could, he would teach infant baptism as well (it might be a hint on a conspiracy or something). How can I answer this?

Furthermore when I talked about circumcision (Col. 2:11–12), the protestant said, that the circumcision is for the sign for Abraham’s faith as everything is based on faith, that’s why you cannot compare circumcision with baptism for infants. What can I say about this?

Changing topics

The protestant tried to change the topic all the time. Even I said let’s finish this topic first, he insistent on another topic, when I explained it, he changed the topic again. Example:

Me: I love the beauty of a church.
He: God doesn’t want us to build a temple. And you worship statues.
Me: (Explaining why we do not worship statues, that they are help full like a candle, nice music etc.)
He: You don’t need it, you just need the holy spirit.
Me: I didn’t say that you need it , but is it helpful.
He: You don’t need all those things.
Me: (repeated myself)
He: There is only one mediator.
Me: (Explaining what is a mediator etc)
He: Have you read the Book of Revelation? You will see that the monster is the catholic church institution.
Me: ok, let’s stop. I am happy you believe in Jesus and are baptized and I believe you are saved.
He: You don’t know that your church does not teach this.
Me: Yes, the CC does teach it. I can bring the CCC and read it for you.
He: The CCC is not the bible.

How to deal with this?

Being provocative

The protestant repeated and always talked against the Catholic Church and provoked me. Like “The Holy Spirit showed me…”,”teaching against the bible…”, “The word of god (meaning just the bible) says something else…”,”God showed me…”,”You just need to believe to be saved….”, “You need to be baptised by the holy spirit…or be regenrated by the holy spirit…”

I let provoke myself and also started also to talk provocative: “The church that Jesus founded…”, “Like the first Christian believed…”,”The Holy Spirit that lives in the catholic church…”…

I even caught my self waiting the protestant lips to stop moving so I could unleash another set of reasons. (catholic.com/magazine/articles/how-to-make-sound-arguments-for-the-faith). Or maybe I didn’t event wait, but interrupted him directly. :frowning:

But how can I keep calm in such a debate?

Maybe I should stop reading apologetic books and start mediate over the bible alone. (catholic.com/magazine/articles/stop-it)

Thanks a regards

Andreas

I would like to recommend a free library of apologetics from one of the best in the business. And he approaches it mainly from the bible even though he is Catholic.

biblechristiansociety.com/download

Pretty much every topic is covered and even how to stay focused and deal with their carpet bombing is discussed.

The first step is getting them to prove to you that everything pertinent in the Christian faith must be found in the bible - they cant do it because that passage is not in there. Sola Scriptura is a assumption.

Check this out…powerful 6 minute video that can help bridge that gap between you and the protestant by establishing these facts:

youtube.com/watch?v=NnwHATcBbNE

Once you get these overly confident people to realize they are not infallible and make mistakes, their ears open some and listen to reason. until then you are not likely to make any progress, unfortunately.

You don’t have to join the battle with argumentative Protestants like him. Or as Mama said, “It takes a fool to argue with a fool.” Most likely you will not change his mind with eloquence or logic, but perhaps with charity, patience, and prayer. Be at peace.

Our first mistake is to think that our dazzling logic and impeccable history will instantly convert the hardest of hearts. Since our Lord, God in the Flesh, could not convert hard hearts, do we consider ourselves to be a better evangelist than Him? Not!

I would obtain and read a copy of Patrick Madrid’s Search and Rescue. And, be prepared to pray for your friend. A lot.

Best before our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament.

Welcome to the reality of the trenches.

You were dealing with someone that is not really interested in truth and facts and appears to think he knows the Catholic faith better than you do.

That one is a write off and a waste of your time. I know, I’ve dealt with my share. (See My Testimony)

On Infant baptism check out my blog article The Case For Infant Baptism.

On the statues…Iconoclasm: Or: Catholics Worship Graven Images NOT

We don’t build temples and your opponent has probably never darkened the door of a Catholic Church and I doubt they’d have the courage to do so. :shrug:

I actually have read Revelation…several times in fact and there is precisely not one thing that even infers or supports his monster crack. CA has a couple of handy articles on that hogwash.
The Antichrist (Fathers*)
Hunting the Whore of Babylon
The Whore of Babylon

Actually the church does teach us about salvation and assurance of it. Again CA to the rescue…Assurance of Salvation?

With this one you need not be so easy and you are really best served by following John Martignoni’s advice and going on the offensive (Strategies and Tactics:I start off by asking questions…being offensive (awfensive) without being offensive (uhfensive).) one of the most effective responses (that this person will not like or listen to anyway) is to challenge him on Sola Scriptura. make him show you in the Bible where it specifically lays claim to being the final and ultimate authority for all that Christians believe and practice and be prepared to shoot down every passage he offers because there isn’t one. All they’ll do is throw out a bunch of out-of-context verses and assert their misinterpretations and if you handle each one (and make him cough up a Bible and show you each on in context) because every single one will fall flat on its proverbial face. It’s happened here on CAF a bunch of times.
It’s NOT in the Bible, okay?
It’s NOT in the Bible, okay? (Part II)
since the Bible is the Word of God it is all we need…
“If anyone teaches/preaches something that is not in scripture”

It can indeed be difficult to keep your cool when you encounter an aggressive and rude type like that and I personally consider the time and place and if it has little chance of bearing real fruit…I dust my boots off and just walk away. There is never an excuse for that rudeness from a person who calls himself a Christian. Never stoop to his level and if he gets angry just say “look, what are you so angry at me for? Am I now you’re enemy because I tell you the truth? (Galatians 4:16) Think all this over and have a good day. Goodbye!” and just walk away without another word while you say a prayer for them.

I would also suggest that you get a supply of a couple of really good Catholic tracts like .
God’s Love For You (Read it here) and Top Ten Questions Catholics are Asked and leave one with them as you go. Nobody yells at a tract.:smiley: And the tracts never get upset no matter what.:thumbsup:

Grotto Press also has an awesome selection of cartoon Catholic tracts that will also be a big help.

You might also look into joining St. Paul Street Evangelization because they train and work at this all the time and the folks I have met have been terrific!

I’d say you did real well with your answers but unexpected challenges can really through most anybody off their stride. God bless you! I think http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif

Lots of people do worship statues! We can speak for ourselves and a few people we know.

It seems to be written that at some stage in the future, we don’t of course know when, some (in some way) monstrous body could call itself something like “Catholic Church”. I don’t know whether that is a conditional prophecy. But why don’t we redouble our Glory Be’s to defer it indefinitely!

As to your conversation companion, folks like us could share a wholesome hobby with those good people!

The only thing I try to work into such conversations is that it is important, whether we profess a “cut down” version of Christianity or not, to make a point, during life, of assisting fellow believers to develop their ministries (because the only crown we’ll get is a share in theirs).

And you continued the debate ?
Why would you Bother ?
Everyone has their own interpretation of their faith ,
I Wouldn’t. be bothered because you won’t win against someone that has an answer for everything.
You have your faith , keep Jesus and the Commandments formost in your heart ,
And let others find their own interpretation of their faith

Speaking as a former protestant, you would probably be more likely to convince if you found quotes from scripture to back up your arguments rather than relying on the Catechism. For instance, there are several precepts in the Old Testament about certain ceremonies and ornaments being commanded by God. The design of the Ark of the Covenant being one example.

Hi,

Thanks everyone for the responses. They help me a lot and the mentioned resources are great!

I appreciate it!

regards,

Andreas

Hi, Andreas!

If you know in your heart and mind that Christ Founded only one Church, then no amount of “evidential proof” can deter/diminish your Faith.

While it is true that the Holy Spirit, the other Paraclete, was sent by Jesus to the Church… and that the Holy Spirit abides (lives) with and in the Believers… it is not true that the Holy Spirit will compel man to rebel against the Church Founded by Christ.

It is guaranteed that no story/myth/propaganda/assault can remove the Catholic Church from her Foundation: Christ.

…yes, many Protestants are versed in Scriptures… yes, many Protestants are well-equipped to dismantle the understanding and abilities of others…

There are two things you must understand about Catholic Evangelists and non-Catholic indoctrinators (Evangelists who are trained to take down and capture others, with a specific agenda to erode Catholic Faith with the end game being the destruction of the Church); non-Catholics have been trained not only to believe all of the non-Catholic propaganda but also that they are the legitimate church (it’s been pounded in their heads that their religious denomination hold the truth–specially those who espouse their existence to the work of the Holy Spirit). Sadly, the Church ill-equips Catholics… for generations we have been trained to be “good Catholics” (people who are so respective of others that they are more eager to “accept all as they are” than to Stand for their Faith).

…in my experience, the non-Catholic agenda includes honing their skills through challenging Catholics… it seems that Catholics (who for the most part are fish in a barrel) not only serve as soft targets but also make for the best converts as they are quick to turn from the Faith and harbor deep resentment against the Church (the Church’s Teachings cost them dearly as they fought her every step of the way; the liberties that non-Catholics offer allows them to do all the things that they did [against Church’s Teachings] and to even engage in those things that they would not but for the “new liberation” granted them in their new adopted faith). So every takedown (at least in the minds of the anti-Catholics) both weakens the Church and emboldens them (gives them a sense of legitimacy: ‘the Holy Spirit is working in us!’).

Understand this should allow you to remain calm even under the most strenuous assailments; you can improve your abilities by improving your knowledge of the Faith.

…instead of heavy amount of topics, post one at a time so that you can get the best out of it:

Infant Baptism:

  • Where in Scriptures does it say that infants are not to be Baptized?–when whole families were being Baptized, where does it state that infants were forbidden to receive Baptism?

  • How much “knowledge,” “faith,” “understanding,” and “conversion” are the dead able to muster?–why did the Apostles not forbid the Believers’ practice of the Baptizing themselves for their beloved dead?

  • If Scriptures state that there is but One Baptism, why do non-Catholics practice both symbolic baptisms and multiple baptisms?

  • If it is the Holy Spirit Who Baptizes and Regenerates, are non-Catholics not limiting His Omnipotence by rejecting His Works in infants?

Rejection of the Church’s Authority is rejection of Christ:

[FONT=“Garamond”][size=]16 He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me.

(St. Luke 10:16)
Maran atha!

Angel

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