How To Measure Heresy In Your church

The amount of heresy in your ecclesial community or belief system is the difference between your ecclesial community’s doctrines/beliefs and the Catholic Doctrines/official teachings.

God built His one Church on the rock of Peter, meaning the office of Prime Minister of Christ’s Earthly Kingdom. Did Christ have to do this? No, of course not, but neither did He have to create you and me. Christ went on to say that the gates of Hell would never prevail against His Church built on the rock of Peter. He said He would be with His Church until the end of time. Christ would be with His Church (His Bride) and protect her from all error in teaching faith and morals to do something that Adam was meant to do and did not. Not surprisingly, we see Christ’s promise kept until this time, and will continue until the end of time. God’s Catholic Church with the office of Peter as visible head has never once taught error in faith and morals, and never will. Men can and have sinned in the Church, but the official teachings have never been in error, and if you believe Christ, they never will be in error. This is the Will of God that all men know Him and have the truth of Him.

All ecclesial communities started by men have done so by separating themselves in teaching from God’s Catholic Church. First of all, any separation that keeps us from being one in Christ is an error in teaching. Then, each teaching not in communion with the Catholic Church doctrine is in error. So, these ecclesial communities were founded on some teaching which originally came from God through His Catholic Church, and then mixed with some error to make it it’s own unique brand or set of beliefs. So, these ecclesial communities were formed with errors and so from the very beginning of these, the gates of Hell have prevailed to a lesser or greater extent depending on these errors. These man-made errant teachings have spread far and wide and have torn at the Body of Christ. This is intolerable and scandalous.

God’s one Church is the standard of truth on earth, and as the Holy Spirit inspired Scriptures teach, the Church with Peter as head is the pillar and foundation of the truth. The degree of heresy in your ecclesial community is measured by the amount of distance from Catholic Doctrine, which is a measure of the amount the gates of Hell have prevailed against your ecclesial community. To the degree that your ecclesial community shares doctrine with God’s Catholic Church, congratulations and keep coming closer, building on the truth you do have to come to the fullness of revealed truth in God’s one Catholic Church.

[FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode]This same admonition certainly applies to all those individuals who call themselves Catholic, but prefer to pick and choose which of God’s teachings they believe are correct. [/FONT]

MDK, I understand what you are saying but how is this going to create any dialog between groups? Is it going to correct any heterodox teachings? One must remember that most do not view their teachings as heterodox or heresy. To me this seems to fan the flames a little.

Thanks for your views, MDK. Lutherans measure heresy within our Church based primarily on scripture and the Lutheran Confessions, as well as the early councils, irrespective of the teachings of the Catholic Church.
For example, Confessional Lutherans inside and outside the ELCA, will consider the recent policy approved by the ELCA regarding gay clergy to be heretical, as it does not reflect the truth of the Gospel, the Confessions, or that of the historical Church.
Where our teachings and that of the CC agree, we rejoice. Where they differ, we pray that our communions may be guided together in truth by the Holy Spirit.

Jon

I absolutely agree, workingman. Hope my response to MDK did not add any fuel to those flames.

Jon

The purpose is to get people to think a little. It’s a provocative statement, and it’s true. Many buy into the lies of Protestantism, and other man-made religions, and so never really know Christ. This is very sad to me, as it hurts the Body of Christ, and also hurts Christ. The purpose is not meant to promote touchy-feely dialogue, but to confront some with the hard truth, which is too often lacking. Now, please go dialogue with these lost people who don’t know what God established. This would be a spiritual work of mercy.

I am an ex-cradle Catholic and was for over three decades. When I finally left the Catholic church after years of unexplainable emptiness and doubt, I was able to measure the heresy. I measured it with what Catholics claim to be equal in authority with their tradition and magisterium. The Holy Scriptures measure the heresy in Catholicism as being two things, far and wide.

No Jon as usual your statements are well thought out. God bless

Jon,
Thanks. You show that the Lutherans are basing their system on beliefs and standards of men who are not also God. Catholic teaching is straight from the God-man, and protected by Him from error. God never told Martin Luther or any of Luther’s followers that they could make their own religion, did Christ? No, of course not. The mere fact that there exists a Lutheran ecclesial community (which is not a proper “Church”) is against the Will of God. God established and intended only one Church… one Shepherd, one flock. You’ve got your own flock over there, in opposition to Christ’s desire that there only be one… and the one He established with Peter as earthly head. Since your ecclesial community is based on men’s interpretations of the Catholic authored Scriptures, you often differ with God’s authentic teaching.

So, sadly you are doing exactly what I warned against, and accepting error over truth. Please come home to the truth, in God’s one Catholic Church that He built and remains Head of this body, His one Bride.

This is the height of arrogance and falsehood. You sir are a hate monger and do not represent the God spoken of in Scripture.

Yes, I enjoy a good thinker as well. I hate to see them off track, though. Sadly, Jon is separated from God’s thinking and prefers another, an ecclesial community built by a heretic. Jon, if you’re really a good thinker, and even more so an obedient follower of God, then you’ll make it over to His one Church. Until then, you’ll remain a thinker, with your own thoughts that don’t necessarily follow Christ’s teachings and the authority He established. If you reject those sent by Christ which are today the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, then you reject Christ. Please think about that, and bring yourself over to the right track.

No, it’s just truth. Sadly, you don’t know what God taught, and like the Pharisees called Christ arrogant and a liar, you now call His Church arrogant and a liar. Not much has changed in 2,000 years.

You disregard what you claim to be one of your three equal authorities my friend. You are a practcing heretic who does not accept the error of his ways

I am a member of his Church. You do not speak to your fellow brother as if you are one though. How sad.

A priest said recently, “Nobody ever left the Catholic Church because they were smart.” I agree.

Catholic men wrote the New Testament based on what was being taught orally with the Holy Spirit. The New Testament is Catholicism, but not all of Catholicism.

Sadly, you were not educated in God’s truth, and so you left it. It happens all the time. Jesus gave a parable about it in the sower and the seeds. Sadly, you are fulfilling Jesus’ prophecy and are on the wrong side of it. Arrogance is thinking you know more than God, which in ignorance, you’re displaying.

I’ll pray that you come to the truth, which God teaches only in His One Catholic Church with the office of Peter as visible head. May God please heal you.

It does get people something to think on a little and it is a provocative statement nor am I arguing with the validity of it. Protestantism most definitely has problems, but to say they never really know Christ is a very brash statement. Are we in a position to judge that. I am not saying the splits are good and that they are not hurtful. I am not one for “touchy-feely” and normally go at things like a bull in a china closet. Last I checked we are all called to go and minister to the lost when we are baptized. Some are better than others at it. Thanks for the reminder I think I will bring my soap box today when I go up to the cities.

You are a separated brother, which means you don’t believe in the fullness of what Christ taught. Neither does your ecclesial community have the full seven Sacraments, as you lack a valid Sacramental Priesthood.

YOU are exactly one who needs to listen to what I wrote instead of finding comfort in your familiar falsehoods. Christ doesn’t want this for you, and neither do I. You’re probably a very nice person, but just misled and on the wrong track. As long as you remain separated from God’s Church, you will not be a full brother, but a separated brother. ** It’s you who separated yourself, and not me.**

No, you are simply ignorant of what I have written, like you are ignorant of what God has taught. We are all ignorant in the beginning. I have remedied that largely, and still have much more to learn. YOU are still way off track, and so call the light darkness and darkness some shade of gray. Does it matter to you to honor God’s Commandment not to falsely accuse, as you have falsely accused me here?

What I have posted here is all true. In your ignorance, you fail to realize that the Magisterium will tell you that the Catholic teachings are based on the Magisterial authority, Sacred Oral Tradition, and Sacred Written Tradition. Do you not know that Jesus established the Magisterial Authority and Oral Tradition, from which His One Church wrote the Scriptures? Scriptures show what God established and tell us to follow those Christ sent and to obey Oral Tradition. Oral Tradition will tell you about the Magisterium and the Scriptures. See, they all work together, as God established.

YOU who teach otherwise and falsely accuse are simply off course. The intent is to make you think. Decide for yourself if you prefer heresy or Christ.

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. This one reason I am Catholic.

How sad that you are not a full brother, but you have separate yourself from full brotherhood. I welcome you to the full brotherhood established by Christ, in His One Catholic Church.

I sited scripture and the early church as the basis for Lutheran teaching, as well as the Confessions. Do you consider scripture and the early councils to be man-made teachings not of God? I’m sure not! So, your definition of “manmade teachings” must then be “teachings that don’t agree with Rome’s communion”. It applies to all that are not in communion with Rome.
You are welcome to this view, which I consider triumphalist, and I’m not offended by it. I have heard it frequently enough, and even sometimes from fellow Lutherans. But I will second workingman’s statement that the presentation of your view, not necessarily your view itself, does not lead to positve dialogue between those of us that truly seek unity.

Many buy into the lies of Protestantism, and other man-made religions, and so never really know Christ. This is very sad to me, as it hurts the Body of Christ, and also hurts Christ.

What is really sad is when we claim we are speading truth and want others to hear it and listen, and start out by telling them they are liars or believe lies from their leaders, that they or their leaders are intentionally leading them away from truth. So, the method is to personally insult, them, offend them, then expect them to listen to you. :shrug:

The purpose is not meant to promote touchy-feely dialogue, but to confront some with the hard truth, which is too often lacking.

So, are you saying that the 60 years of dialogue between Lutherans and Catholics has been nothing but touchy-feely, and that your leaders have allowed the hard truth to be lacking in those dialogues?

Jon

What I said is true and important for us all, so please interpret things not in a way you may be at first inclined to do, but rather how they were meant. I ask you to please think a little more or better about it.

Please consider, did I claim that they know nothing of Jesus? No, that claim wasn’t made.

Please consider that when you believe falsehoods about Christ, do you really and authentically know Him as he revealed to the world? NO, we would not.

We can only really know Him if we do so without error. We as humans can never, ever know Him fully or else we would be God and He would be finite. Christ did reveal attributes about Himself, about the Godhead. We must seek to know these without error, and this can only be done in God’s one Church, the Catholic Church.

Very serious errors by those separated from His one Church include the invomparable Eucharist. This is so huge, as not to need to go on. But there are more. They misinterpret how Jesus applies the merits of His Salvation to our lives. They misinterpret His death on the cross to mean “once and done” instead of once for all time. Do these people really know Christ by these interpretations, or some version of a god that they have created for themselves? There is a good reason why God gave us the Magisterium who is protected by the Holy Spirit… so the gates of Hell would not prevail and so we would know Him.

I hope you understand now more of what was written in these posts and why it is important. Many misunderstand and think the divisions between “equivalent faith systems” are not important. There is only one faith system built by God, and to separate yourself from it is the thing you must fix first in your life. Seek first the Kingdom of God. The Earthly authority for His Earthly Kingdom is only in His Catholic Church.

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