Please, help me about all the statements “to pray for Russia”. St Faustina did it, the children in 1911 had vision of Holy Mother about it… I forgot many of Catholic messages…
“We ask you, Lord, to soften the hearts of the Russian people, that they may come to live your will in faith, and that the all the Catholic and Orthodox Churches be reunited.”
“… for the collegial consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.”
Thank you. I found it by myself.
"We*[the three children at Fatima]*then looked up at Our Lady, who said to us so kindly and so sadly:
- “You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pius XI [Pius XI, Feb. 6, Feb. 12, 1922 – Feb. 10, 1939]. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world”.
If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church.
Communism was cooked up by a German Jew living in England.**
…but most effectively spread by the Soviet Union, I think. Most other communist states looked up to the USSR, even if after many looked closer and thought they could do better.
OTOH – if one looks to Russia (NOT the USSR) as the protector and proponent of Christianity (agains pagans, infidels, and Rome), then one must also state that said Christianity was “cooked up” by a Palestinian Jew living in the Roman Empire.
And indeed if Russia is taken to mean the USSR it did indeed persecute Christians (and for that matter a host of believers in other faiths - let me get my wife’s best friend Tanya on her one day to tell you the joys of been Jewish under the USSR) including a number of martyrs who spoke up against the excesses of both the Czars (for which the Communists praised them) and later the Communists (for which they manifestly did not praise them).
Here’s a whole host of martyrs for you:-
I would like to see our Churches reunited EVENTUALLY but there are natural concerns that both sides would have and it cannot happen without God’s grace. For now the fact that people are returning to their faith in the Orthodox Church in Russia is an encouraging sign -although some of the Russian people are not liking what the clergy there are saying any more than some Europeans or Americans like what our clergy say as the message they are preaching is at odds with the society as it exsists currently just as it is in Europe and the US. In fact to a certain extent when Christianity is not at odds with the world then you could question if it really is Christian.
The Orthodox Church could and should be our greatest ally - instead due to centuries of hard-headedness from both sides, nationalism becoming over influential at times in both Churches and many historical reasons we have ended up with the current sad state of affairs where division and bitterness have occurred and we have seen reflecitons of that in some attitudes here from posters from both sides of the fence.
Some of the regular forum members who have seen my posts are also aware I am married to a member of the Russian Orthodox Church - I have been called everything from a heretic to a cafeteria Catholic for saying I have no absolutely no wish to convert her to been Catholic.
A Cafecatheheretic! :eek:
Sounds like something of a Starbucks menu (not surprising, Starbucks… the coffee chain from Hell)
Hmm. I thought of starting a thread about this subject a few weeks ago when I first heard this “pray for the conversion of Russia” idea on EWTN. Forgive me, but I definitely shy away from any discussion of apparitions, as edifying as they may be to those who claim to see them, so I had not heard of this before. I guess I am a bad Catholic, because my gut reaction is to be against it. Conversion of non-Christians within Russia, sure, but if we are talking about conversion of the Orthodox within Russia, then no thank you. Those who want to unite with Rome will do so on God’s time. In the meantime, we ought to pray that all of Russia’s Christians, as well all of Europe’s Christians, keep to the faith in the face of the poisonous trends all over the developed world which every day seek more and more ways to attack, berate, water down and nullify our faith.
This largely reflects my own opinion - I think this idea that all Russians should become Catholic is ill-advised in the extreme and insulting to the Orthodox Church also. I could certainly understand arguments in favour of there been less official and semi-official pressure against Catholics within Russia but that’s as far as I would go.
Indeed. You know what might help reduce the persecution of Catholics in Russia? Not starting drives to convert the Orthodox of that country! :idea:
Of course you already know that, but not everyone has the good fortune to be married to a Russian.
I think it might be worthwhile to pray for the conversion of the world, or at the very least all of Europe.
Interestingly enough, Marxism is NOT what Lenin claimed it was, nor was Lenin’s misinterpretation of Marxism to survive Stalin, who simply turned it into a variation of Divine Right Autocracy, with the “divine” replaced by the “People’s Party” and lip service to Marxism.
I pray for the conversion of Russia to Catholicism, as do many Traditional Catholics. If that offends any Orthodox, well then they’re welcome to pray that we’re converted to Orthodoxy. When it comes down to it we want to see everyone become Catholic, just as I know sincere Orthodox want to see the whole world become Orthodox.
Is that what you think Our Lady of Fatima was asking for?
I believe Catholics have always believed the conversion part to be a conversion to Catholicism.
It’s certainly not how I’d view such a message - although like dzheremi I’m not a big fan of apparitions in any case. But I interpreted it as a plea for the Russian people to turn away from the ultimately dehumanizing face of dogmatic Communism that the state was foisting upon people and I say that as a socialist myself.
Seamus - your points of view would offend devout Orthodox believers and I suggest you learn about the history of the persecutions the EO have undegone in Russian and surrounding states. The number of Metropolitans, monks, nuns etc. killed (in often appalling manners) means those now free to practise the Orthodox faith in Russia openly over the last 20 years or so are very fiercely protective of their faith, understandably so.
When I married my wife her brother who is a cadet in the Russian Army was concerned at first I would seek to make her convert, he had to meet me and understand how deeply I would deplore such an action before relaxing. Bear in mind the city he and his sister come from was used to transport clergy and laypeople (both Catholic and Orthodox btw) for use as slave labour and that been known as a devout member of any Church could get you into serious trouble and you will see why he is protective of what for many Russians is seen as their traditional Church.
A big part of Our Lady's message at Fatima is about Communism. I think it's quite obvious that the message that Russia will spread her errors refers to Communism, and NOT Orthodoxy. I'm quite aware that many Orthodox believers in the former Soviet Union were persecuted and murdered. However I don't know how the traditional interpretation of Fatima somehow ignores this. I don't mean to sound antagonistic here, but there is quite alot in Catholicism that offends the Orthodox. Especially in Russia. Our continued prayers for the conversion of Russia to Catholicism are not overt actions. At the very least you could say that you leave it to God as to how he answers our prayers.
I have absolutely NO wish for the Orthodox to ‘convert’ to Catholics - I have a wish for both sides to abandon their antagonistic attitudes and reunite but as dzheremi points out (and it’s a point I absolutely agree with) that will take time and massive patience as there are natural suspicions on both sides and only God’s grace will really accomplish it if it happens.
Some Orthodox faithful can be combative and insulting towards the Cartholic Church but then again I’ve seen some less than choice comments about the Orthodox here which have at times emberassed me as a Catholic.
I have no desire whatsoever to insult Orthodox believers, but I'm also willing to admit when the topic comes up, that we do not believe the same things. Quite often I've found that sincere Orthodox are much more accepting of that reality then many in the Catholic Church who constantly push for ecumenism.