How to read Roman Catechism Citations in CCC


#1

In several places the Catechism of the Catholic Church cites the Roman Catechism a.k.a. the Catechism of the Council of Trent. For example CCC § 750 ("…so as not to confuse God with his works and to attribute clearly to God’s goodness all the gifts he has bestowed on his Church."), footnote 138 says

138 Roman Catechism I, 10, 22.

I own a copy of the Companion to the Catechism of the Catholic Church so I thought I could just look up what that footnote citation said there, but it turns out that the Companion omits that cited text entirely. In fact, it looks like the Companion omits every mention of the Roman Catechism throughout!

Not too worry! I thought, there are plenty of online copies of the Roman Catechism. That’s when I discovered that this “I, 10, 22” type of citation doesn’t seem to correspond to the way that the old Catechism is actually laid out. Part I, Article 10, paragraph or section 22 seemed like the most obvious way to interpret the citation, but Part I, Article X in all the editions I’ve found (such as this one http://www.saintsbooks.net/books/The%20Roman%20Catechism.pdf ) is I. The Creed / X. The Forgiveness of Sins, and it doesn’t even have as many as 22 paragraphs in that section. :frowning:

So I know there must be some other way to read “I, 10, 22” but I can’t figure it out.

Does anybody know how to find the part of the Roman Catechism that the CCC is citing?

Thank you!!


#2

The catechism is way over my head.


#3

No idea. The footnote number 136 on the same page of the CCC is Roman Catechism I,10,1. That one is for a straight quotation. It can actually be found right in the last sentence of the opening section of Part I, article 9.

The footnote in your post also references part of the same Article 9. It is the last sentence in the section subtitled “I Believe the Holy Catholic Church.” I can’t figure out any way that sentence can be counted as 22…


#4

Unfortunately what I have found is that you need to read the Trent Catechism through and through. It’s actually not a terribly difficult read and is much shorter than the CCC.
From there you can refer to the sections of the Trent catechism that seem connected to what your looking for.


#5

That direct quote is a great clue—great find Genesis 315!.

So if the Introduction were counted as the first section, then “Article 9” = 10 works out. And the last “1” is whatever the CCC authors considered to be the first sub-section or something.
Now using this http://www.cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/trent/tcreed09.htm easy to read online copy of the Roman Catechism, counting from all sections that have headings, the 22nd section = “Communion Of Sacraments”. I read that section. Because CCC § 750 isn’t directly quoting, I can’t be positive that ‘Communion of Sacraments’ is the section it was citing, but it could be.

However, when I looked a few sections preceding, in “I Believe the Holy Catholic Church”, the last sentence in that section perfectly matches what the CCC is saying when it cites it: the sentence in the CCC is a very close paraphrase of what the Roman Catechism says.

So “II, 10, 22” is mostly intelligible: First Part, Ninth Article (b/c the Introduction of each Part is counted as the first), and only the last number doesn’t match up with any English copy that I’ve seen before. The section, sub-section or paragraph numberings would certainly have differences in the many editions of the Roman Catechism printed since 1566, in various translations and probably even in subsequent printings of the original Latin text. But knowing the first two numbers at least gets us to the correct “chapter”, and as ConcernedConvert pointed out, we can read that from the top and find what the CCC is citing.


#6

The problem is CCC 750 is almost a direct quote from a few sections above the one you cite (it’s from “I believe the Holy Catholic Church”). In the last sentence of that section it says:

Roman Catechism

By this difference of expression we distinguish God, the author of all things, from His works, and acknowledge that all the exalted benefits bestowed on the Church are due to God’s bounty.

Compare with CCC 750:

…so as not to confuse God with his works and to attribute clearly to God’s goodness all the gifts he has bestowed on his Church.


#7

Anyone else’s head swimming?! :crazy_face:


#8

How to read the catechism?


#9

.
.
The reference

Roman Catechism I, 10, 22.

Should be understood as follows :

“I” Refers to the – first section the Creed

The Catechism of Trent

PART I : THE CREED,

PART 2 Sacraments

PART 3 Ten Commandments

PART 4 Our Lord’s Prayer

“10” actually article article 9, since Introduction is counted as One.

In the section on The Creed we find :

Introduction:

Article 1:

Article 2:

Article 3:

“Introduction” is counted as numbered as One. ( Not number 0. )

Therefore “10” is a reference to

Article 9: The Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints

Article 9: The Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints

The Catechism of Trent

ARTICLE IX : "I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH; THE COMMUNION OF SAINTS"

Near the end of the coincidentally tenth section we read what had apparently been counted as section 22:

"I Believe the Holy Catholic Church"

Finally, with regard to the Church, …
We are, therefore, bound to believe that there is one Holy Catholic Church. With regard to the Three Persons of the Holy Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, we not only believe them, but also believe in them. But here we make use of a different form of expression, professing to believe the holy, not in the holy Catholic Church . By this difference of expression we distinguish God, the author of all things, from His works , and acknowledge that all the exalted benefits bestowed on the Church are due to God’s bounty.

Compare that to CCC

750 To believe that the Church is “holy” …
In the Apostles’ Creed we profess “one Holy Church” ( Credo . . . Ecclesiam ), and not to believe in the Church, so as not to confuse God with his works and to attribute clearly to God’s goodness all the gifts he has bestowed on his Church.[ 138](javascript:redirectResponsive(‘par=750&fnote=138’))

Possibly this a direct quotation from Trent, just a different translation from the Latin, therefore no need to list again in Companion.

Compare CCC

749 The article concerning the Church also depends entirely on the article about the Holy Spirit, which immediately precedes it. "Indeed, having shown that the Spirit is the source and giver of all holiness, we now confess that it is he who has endowed the Church with holiness." 136

footnote :

136 Roman Catechism I, 10, 1.

Roman Catechism I, 10, 1. (Article 9)

“… Holy Ghost is the source and giver of all holiness, we here profess our belief that the Church has been endowed by Him with sanctity.”

Hope this helps,
John


#10

Should’ve just stuck with the Roman Catechism:neutral_face:


#11

Thanks JohnR77 that is almost exactly what we ended up concluding. The third number is unpredictable but a thorough enough reading of the whole Article suffices to find the passage that the CCC is referring to. :slight_smile:

Possibly this a direct quotation from Trent, just a different translation from the Latin, therefore no need to list again in Companion.

No need?! The Companion’s whole purpose is to provide the citations from the Catechism, not to provide the citations unless they’re from the council of Trent! I can’t agree with the “again” part either, that begs the question where in the CCC / Companion was a parallel passage from Council of Trent cited? There is no “again” there.

I looked thru the CCC for other footnotes, and the Companion is consistent: no quotes / passages from the Roman Catechism are to be found anywhere in the Companion. They just left it out. :tired_face: We may never know the reason for Ignatius Press’ omissions.


#12

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