How to refute the Dispensationalist view


#1

Is there a Catholic refute for the Dispensationalist
view point? I need some hard points to help me with my conversations with my dad.

YBIC
Dan


#2

The Dispensationalist therory came about through a 19th century English Evangilical preacher by the name of Thomas Darby.He divided the Bible into( I think) 7era’s,The era of the law,grace etc.These divisions are called dispensations.This gave rise to a Pre-Tribulation Rapture therory(Christians will disappear)before the Anti-Christ comes to power.A couple of questions I would ask#1.Scripture states power was given him to make war with the Saints,If the Saints are gone how is he going to make war with them?#2 He would fool the elect if it were posible.Saints still here.#3Rev.13,All will worship the Beast whose name is not written in the Lambs book of Life.You can’t buy or sell without the mark.If you recieve the mark there is no tribulation for you.#4 Rev.7,These seem to be the Saints who came uot of the Great Tribulation.Hope this helps.


#3

I used to teach this stuff for years until the unanswered questions just finally woke me up. So here goes.
I have yet to hear a Dispensationalist answer these simple questions about their ‘theology’:

Let’s start with Daniel Chapter nine (the foundation of Dispensationalist theology).
(KJV):

24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

?

27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

  1. Disys say that there is a ‘church age gap’ between verse 26 and 27.
    Where is the gap? IN THE TEXT.

  2. Dispensationalists say that the ‘prince that shall come’ in verse 26 is different than ‘Messiah the Prince’ of verse 25.
    How do you know it is speaking of two different people from a simple reading of the text? Why would Daniel suddenly change his mind and start talking about a different person? How does this make logical and grammatical sense? Please find it IN THE TEXT.

Also:

3.Please find ANY reference of the ‘rapture’ in Scripture or in church history prior to the 19th century.

  1. Dispensationalist (like Harold Wilmington of Libery University) say that during the millennium, resurrected people and non-resurrected people with sin natures will live side by side on the earth.
    PLEASE, find this ANYWHERE in the Bible.

  2. Find ‘seven year tribulation’ in the Bible.

  3. Find ‘revived Roman Empire’ anywhere in the Bible.

  4. Please find anywhere in the Bible that says the Jews will return to the land in 1948.

Stand back, you may be hurt when they implode.


#4

Look here:

chnetwork.org/forums/forum20/2949.html

chnetwork.org/forums/forum20/2858.html

Five Myths About the Rapture, Carl E. Olson

Lahaying the Rapture on Thick, Carl E. Olson

Recycled Rapture, Carl E. Olson

No Rapture for Rome: The Anti-Catholics behind the Best-selling Left Behind Books, Carl E. Olson

The Rapture (Catholic Answers)

The Second Coming (John Salza)

Daniel, Revelation, and the Rapture Myth, Deacon Paul Carlson

Questioning the “Left Behind” Rapture, David M. Bristow

Endtimes, Millennium, Rapture, Colin B. Donovan, STL


#5

Actually, Dispensationalism goes back quite a bit further than Darby. There are shades of it as far back as Augustine. If you consider that the actual Greek word for “dispensation” is actually used in the Bible numerous times, it simply means that God deals with humanity at different times and in different ways throughout history.


#6

If you used to teach “this stuff,” it’s mind-boggling that you don’t know the answers to your statements below. I wish I had time to answer them all, but I don’t and furthermore I don’t really care if you know them or not.

However, here is a sampling for you.

The GAP in Daniel. In order to understand that this gap actually exists, you’ll have to do some math and you’ll also have to understand the Hebrew (or Greek if you’re using the LXX), for “week” as used in Daniel. The word is literally “heptamades” or in English; seventy sevens. This is a literal seventy sevens (or 70 weeks), due to the fact that Israel failed for 70 years to keep God’s command to allow the land to have a Sabbath every 7 years (cf. Lev 25:8). This totals 490 years. Are you still with me? Swell.

The first 7 ‘weeks’ (or 49 years) most likely has reference to the remaining years of the Old Testament prophetic ministry after the decree of King Artaxerxes, in Nehemiah 2:1-6 (the only decree, by the way, pertaining to the actual city), while the following sixty-two ‘weeks’ cover the inter-testamental period (434 years), which would include the 400 years of silence (Amos 8:11).

Are you still with me? Wonderful. Let’s move on. So far, we have used up 483 years of the 360-years (according to the Jewish lunar calendar). According to the sun calendar, years are made up of 365 days. The lunar calendar would add a 13th month to make up the difference when enough days had accumulated, but this addition is not characteristic of Biblical prophecy (see Rev. 11:2,3; 12:6; 13:5), so five days per year must be subtracted to fit into the lunar calendar. Five days times 483 years equals 2415 extra days, or roughly 6.75 years.

Sorry, we’re not done yet…445 BC + 483 years = 38 AD. Then subtract the 6 years (for the lunar calendar adjustment), and that = 32AD (sound familar?), which puts us at the time of Christ’s death, something that Daniel describes in verse 26 of chapter 9:

“After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.”

I think we would agree that Christ was crucified at 32 or 33 AD, thus fulfilling the first part of the prophecy. Rome destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD (fulfilling the second part). So, the first 483 years of the 490-year schedule is complete. There is one ‘week’ (or seven years) remaining. The Messiah being “cut off” means exactly what happened to Christ. He was rejected and crucified. He Himself said He would not return until they (Israel) said “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.” So, we have a gap, because unless I’ve missed it (or you’re Covenant), He hasn’t returned yet…

I know of NO Dispensationalist who insists that there are actually TWO different people spoken of between verses 25 and 26. Never heard that.

There is no direct reference to the Rapture. However this proves absolutely nothing, as you will not find a reference to the Trinity either and many other things, yet doctrines have been surmised from Scripture based on the text and what it teaches. Paul mentions the “catching up” of believers (the dead first and then those who are alive) in his letter to the Thessalonicans, in chapter 4. He uses the term “caught up” which is translated from the Latin ~ Rapture. There you go. Its origin is not English, but I hope Latin will work for you…

The reason most Dispensationalists understand Paul’s teaching here to refer to a Rapture of the Church (as opposed to His 2nd Coming) is because of the language of the text. Plus, it is apparent from other areas of Scripture that when Christ returns at His 2nd Coming, all the saints are already with Him and we are on our way back to earth, where He will set up His kingdom.

TO BE CONT’D…in PT 2


#7

CONT’D from PT 1…

Regarding the assertion that people who have been resurrected will live alongside those who have sin-natures is not at all that difficult to ascertain from Scripture. You DO understand that people will be BORN during the Millennial reign of Christ, correct? You DO understand that there will be human beings who exist through the Tribulation and actually make it out alive, correct? It is THESE people who will continue to live in the Millennial kingdom and have children and it is also a great many of these folks who will revolt against Jesus at the END of the Millennial kingdom time, after Satan is released from his prison. Have you read Revelation? You should. It’s a great book and it’s not nearly as difficult to comprehend as people make it out to be.

Regarding the 7 years of Tribulation, I gave the background for it and the rest is found in the Olivet Discourse and spoken of by Christ Himself. You can find the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21. I would suggest when you read and compare those, you do so very carefully because there is some REALLY interesting stuff there. Oh, the Tribulation is also referenced in detail by John in Revelation; chapters 4 - 18.

Hey, here’s a history lesson for you. If you were so Dispensationalist then this will be easy…what is the “abomination that desolates” that Christ referred to in His Olivet Discourse? Is it something that actually took place in history, or was it simply a dark, and forboding term that Christ chose to use? (HINT: It actually happened in history, circa 168 BC). Why is this important and how does it refute the Covenant position that all prophecy has been fulfilled and most of it when Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD?

The revived Roman Empire is actually referenced in Daniel. It’s actually pretty easy to figure out, especially if you understand the “abomination that desolates/abomination of desolation.” You have to ask yourself just who destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD. Then you have to - based on not only Daniel, but Ezekiel and Revelation - find out what the Bible says about the ruler and the empire that will “pop” up again in the Last Days (a term that Paul DID use).

Come on now, I can’t give you ALL the answers, can I? What would be the point?

The Bible NEVER says that the Jews will return to the land in 1948. It says they will RETURN and some have decided that when they received the “deed” to their land in 1948, this must be the fulfillment of that part of the Abrahamic Covenant. However, this is not necessarily the case.

(Edited) I really have to question your boasted knowledge of Dispensationalism. I can’t imagine that you taught that stuff without a thorough knowledge of at least what most Dispensationalists espouse. (Edited)


#8

“Shades of it.” That makes me think of people all through the ages finding “shades” of other inaccurate interpretations throughout scripture.

A shade is not a legitimate teaching.

Dispensationalism is simply a presumptive way of separating the sheep (them) from the goats (us) before God’s judgment is pronounced. Look at some of the other things dispensationalists claim, though, and you really have to wonder. They claim “strict literal interpretation” - except when it is inconvenient, whereupon they claim certain clearly literal verses (this IS my body, this IS my blood) are “clearly intended to be taken figuratively”. They claim that only exactly 144,000 of them will be standing in that select group described in Revelation, yet seem to miss noticing those verses specifically name “tribes of Israel” (whose tribe names do NOT match the list of tribes in the OT) and most of them have no Jewish ancestors. Try explaining the spiritual meanings of numbers as understood by Jews and Christians alike of 2,000 years ago and you’ll get a lot of blank stares from the modern dispensationalists.

(If you don’t know about spiritual meanings of numbers, here is a sample. 7=perfection of God. 6=Satan, because it always falls short of 7. 40=repentance and cleansing. 12=all the people of God; Judas was replaced because the number of apostles had to be complete. x10, x100, and x1000 mean “this is really important, this is really huge”. So 12,000 from all of the 12 tribes of Israel, when the tribal names listed do not match the OT names, actually means “all of the people of God from all over the earth in numbers too vast to count” There’s more, but you get the idea. Dispensationalists generally don’t.)

The biggest mis-interpretation that dispensationalists make, and the easiest one to disprove, is this: they will not need to suffer because Christ will pluck them away before the divine wrath descends. Scripture is rife with statements that not only will we all suffer for Christ, but that we should do so gladly. Suffering is necessary as a method for disciplining us.

Digging deeper into dispensationalist thought, it really offends me when they claim that the only books which actually apply to them are the letters of Paul. They claim the others books before and after are useful, but don’t apply to the current “dispensation”. How can someone stand there with a straight face and claim that the words of our Lord Jesus Christ do not apply to us, but the words of the Apostle Paul do apply and supersede Christ’s words???

But do the dispensationalists, as a group, agree on which books apply to them in the present dispensation? Absolutely not.

Do the dispensationalists, as a group, even agree on which “age” we are in, and how many ages preceeded or will follow? No again.

The dispensationalists make a big deal about determining which books apply to them by noting the order of books in the bible. Do they have any clue about WHY the books are in that order, or that the order in which they are placed and the order in which they were written are completely different? Don’t bother asking.

The dispensationlists, as a group, can not even agree on “rapture” pre-, mid- or post-tribulation.

Now, they’ll all gladly point you to the verse about meeting the Lord in the air. They presume that means Christ is coming down halfway to catch them back up, even though the verse itself says nothing of the kind. The point they completely miss is that this verse describes the continuation of the OT practice of greeting an approaching dignitary and escorting him into town. The holy ones meet Christ in the air, not to run away to heaven, but to be His honor guard and escort Him down to earth at His second coming.

Clearly God is dealing differently with us than he dealt with men 2,000 years ago. We know about bacteria, epliepsy, cataracts, leprosy, and comas. We have medical treatments for these now. The men of Jesus’s day attributed these to evil spirits. As our knowledge increased, God gradually had to adapt his methods. This fact bears absolutely no support for the idea that we are living in a different “dispensation” than 2,000 years ago.

Are we living in the “end times”? Will Christ call the world to account for itself within the next 1/5/10 years? I can tell you this much: for every one of you reading this, the world WILL end in less than 100 years. You WILL be called to account in less than 100 years. Why? Because the lifespan of a human is about 74 years on average for most, and almost none have ever managed to exceed 114.

If you think there’s something special about the Revelation and the 2nd Coming that applies uniquely to these times, get in line behind 2000 years of people who preceeded you and were certain of the same thing in their day.


#9

modres,The history lesson you refer to is in 1Macc.and 2Macc.(Catholic Bible).I don’t mean to be uncharible but the 300-400 "silent "yrs do not exist.God spoke Loud and Clear.Please read all 77 books of Sacred Scripture.Peace:)


#10

Typical leap in logic. I asked you to find the gap in the text, and of course you didn’t because its not there. So you go through a sarcastic re-explanation of dispensationalist theology to ‘teach’ me. The Bible is not a puzzel book one has to put together, the ‘gap’ is not and never has been there. Never was taught until Darby.


#11

No great surprise there, talk to to two dispensationalists, and you get two totally different opinions. One would think the spirit (which you say you rely on in sola Scriptura) would be more consistant.


#12

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

which would include the 400 years of silence (Amos 8:11).

?


#13

Yes, but “dispensationalism” is generally used as shorthand for a specific historical pattern discerned by Darby. I agree that Augustine is a forerunner in many ways (and Joachim of Fiore even more so). But there are huge differences. One of the key affirmations of dispensationalism is the idea of the Church as a “parenthesis” rather than (as traditional Christians believed) a fuller stage of divine revelation. This goes along with a much sharper division among the “dispensations.” For Augustine and other traditional Christian thinkers, the New Covenant brings a fuller truth which is to the Old as reality to shadow. Dispensationalists don’t really see it that way. Hence their view that God will “return” to what is in effect his original plan of working with the Jews after the Gentile Church is raptured. (The Reformed position is different again–it is much further from dispensationalism than is the patristic/medieval position.)

Edwin


#14

Hey Kids,

Some of you need to go back and study the history not only of Dispensationalism, but of Catholicism. If you really knew church history, it would be obvious to you that theology and major doctrines of the church have been discussed and adopted in STEPS. There was NEVER a time in true church history where a doctrine was immediately adopted and completely understood without further refinements. So when I say “shades” I mean shades, but I also mean that there is a direct correlation between those shades and what took place after it, regarding cementing it.

Dispensationalism in a nutshell is recognizing that God deals differently with humanity at different times in history and that responsibility on humanity is also different. Moreover, God’s redemptive purposes are seen as progressive, since He reveals more and more of His purposes as time goes on. This is clearly seen in the first words to Abram in Gen 12 onward.

You all remember the Reformation, don’t you?

At any rate, I presented my views and you have rejected them. I’m perfectly fine with that. I do not need to prove anything, nor do I need to remain in debate with you.

I responded because of Justaservants arrogance. Seems as though it’s still there.

Regarding the concept that not all Dispensationalists agree…whoopee. There are branches of Catholicism that do not agree. In fact, it got so bad during the Reformation, that people who did not agree with the Catholic church were killed.

Yet today, we have a new ecumenism that wants to embrace Catholicism and visa versa. What has changed within the Catholic Church? Anything? Except for the obvious indulgences, I don’t see where things have really changed.

But all that aside, let’s look at it this way for a minute (before I get banned from the board :rolleyes: ), some of you are so intent upon refuting Dispensationalism as if WE are the root of all evil. Shouldn’t you be more inclined to live your faith with a love that supercedes any religious boundaries?

The first poster asked, “How do you refute Dispensationalists?” Wouldn’t a better question be “How do you pray for Dispensationalists?” or “How do you love Dispensationalists in spite of their (perceived) error?”

Does debate EVER solve anything? I have had Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons and the like at my door. Those who were willing to actually discuss things, instead of leading me through a scripted conversation, were fine enough, yet nothing was solved. So, where did that leave us? It left us both with our own opinions firmly intact.

And let me ask you this…if I, as a Dispensationalist am wrong, what have I done or what do I believe that is SO jarring to some of you? I believe in the Rapture of the Church. Ooooh, bad idea!

I believe in the Tribulation that John talks about and Christ makes apparent in the Olivet Discourse. Ooooh, things might get really bad.

I do not believe in numerology, no matter how spiritual it may seem to be.

I believe that Christ will reign for 1000 years in a Millennial Kingdom. Ooooooh, how terrible; Christ will have a Theocratic Kingdom where His rule will be absolute.

I believe that Satan will be bound during this 1,000 year. Ooooh, another terrible thing that might happen.

BUT, the reality is this - IF I am wrong, does that mean by believing in Dispensationalism, these things will actually happen, in spite of God’s Sovereignty? Dispensationalists have been accused of all types of things with one of the latest being that we actually WANT to bring the Tribulation about. How absurd, as if our wishes or beliefs will overthrow God’s plans to insure that ours occur.

If I - when I read through Scripture - come to conclusions that you do not, what actual harm have I caused ANY of you? I believe that Israel and the Church are separate and that God has always had a separate plan for BOTH. Wow, how terrible is that? On my goodness. Take me out and scourge me.

I guess my point is this - Covenant theologians and Dispensationalists cannot both be right obviously. However NEITHER will change God’s plans. He is going to do what He is going to do, regardless of how many people believe it or not. As it was in the days of Noah…

I was talking to a Covenant theologian in my church about this very topic and he made an astounding observation. There are beliefs that are completely peripheral to salvation. They do not hinge upon it, nor do they subtract or add to it. Eschatology is one of those areas. His point was this: it is NOT that people disagree. It is how they TREAT in other in spite of their disagreements.

I came to this board and responded because of the perceived arrogance among some in this thread. It is still there in the responses to my comments.

What are YOU accomplishing? If you are SO convinced that I am wrong and the root of all evil, then WHAT IS THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT? I say pray for wisdom and pray for love. If you cannot do that, then at the very least, you must question your own salvation.

Take care folks. It would be asinine for me to stay and be continually lampooned. I’m sure you would like me to stay, but I’m also sure you’ll understand if I bow out.

The Lord bless you,
Fred


#15

Wow! Is this fun for anyone involved?

I think the tribulation spoke of during the Olivet Discourse is the sacking and destruction of Jerusalem by General Titus in 70 AD.

I also think that the 1000 year period of Revelation is a restatement of the promise to the Jews that Israel will rule with Messiah for a 1000 years. The rejection of Jesus by the Jews does not make God’s promise null and void. I believe that when Armageddon happens and the Jews cry out that Jesus will return and save them.

However, I don’t know if I’m wrong or right.

I think the most important thing about prophecy is that it let’s us know unequivocally that God wins, and all of our differences over the how and why (which do sell a lot of books and make a few folks a lot of money) don’t add up to much beside that one undeniable fact.

I really don’t understand why people get so fired up about this.


#16

That was only part of it. Christ (and Jeremiah) refer to the “abomination that desolates.” This did not occur in 70AD. As with most prophecy, there is always a near/far aspect. Certainly part of what Christ was referring to in the Olivet Discourse was what transpired in 70AD. But if you compare the Olivet Discourses in Matthew, Mark and Luke, you’ll note a difference.

The apostles/disciples had asked a question; apparently, they thought it was just one question, but in actuality it was two questions, which is why there are differences in the gospel accounts of Christ’s response.

The “abomination that desolates” is an actual historical event that happened in 168BC. There, Antioches Epiphanes, who was one of Alexander the Great’s commanders, went into the Jewish Temple and did a number of things:

  1. He set up a statue of Zeus (with his own face on the statue)
  2. He slaughtered a pig on the altar
  3. He sprinkled the pig’s blood in the Holy of Holies

Nothing like this occurred during the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, but it is clear (IN MY OPINION) from Scripture that Christ at least expected something like this to occur again. John in Revelation also indicates it. It hasn’t happened yet.

The Covenant Theologians do not agree of course and prefer to think that all/most or prophecy has already happened. However, even Covenant Theologians don’t agree, because some will say this; some will say that; some are Preterist while some are not; and some are even hyper-Preterist. It’s not just Dispensationalists that have varying points of view.

I also think that the 1000 year period of Revelation is a restatement of the promise to the Jews that Israel will rule with Messiah for a 1000 years. The rejection of Jesus by the Jews does not make God’s promise null and void. I believe that when Armageddon happens and the Jews cry out that Jesus will return and save them.

But it is also clear that we, as the Church will also reign with Christ during this period. I’m glad you see a difference between God’s program for the church and His program for Israel.

However, I don’t know if I’m wrong or right.

Cont’d next post with part 2


#17

Conclusion post…

Wow, AMEN! Thank you. A person who is willing to state that they could be wrong. That is appreciated because while I have not stated that here, I’ve stated that same thing plenty of times to Covenant Theologians, who wanted to do nothing more than castigate me because I use the literal-grammatical-historical hermeneutic in my understanding of Scripture, which leads me to Dispensationalism.

I really appreciate that, and it’s obvious from your admission that you and I would actually be able to discuss this without wanting to kill each other. :stuck_out_tongue: I don’t know everything either. In fact, I will be the first to admit that I am not infallible, which only throws me back further into His Word and onto the Lord Himself.

I think the most important thing about prophecy is that it let’s us know unequivocally that God wins, and all of our differences over the how and why (which do sell a lot of books and make a few folks a lot of money) don’t add up to much beside that one undeniable fact.

Wow, another AMEN! May I make one other distinction? To the Covenant Theologian, God’s purposes are only seen in His plan of redemption. While that is obviously HUGE, the Dispensationalist sees God’s purposes not only in the plan of redemption, but in ALL OF HISTORY.

In other words, you’re right - God WINS! In a nutshell, it PROVES His sovereignty! AMEN! and AMEN! He is TOTALLY and completely sovereign over His creation. There has never been a time when God said, “Oooh, I didn’t see THAT coming!” Never. He is THE sovereign over all the universe and everything in it. Well stated bogeydogg!

I really don’t understand why people get so fired up about this.

Well, people (myself included) like to be sure of what they believe, otherwise what is the point in believing it?

The problem though is when this WHOLE area becomes all consuming. To be thought of as wrong is a smack against their beliefs and their beliefs define their life, so…

The reality for me is that EVERYONE is a Dispensationalist in the true sense of the word IF they see a distinction between the way God works throughout the ages (not necessarily denoted by time).

A person is a Dispensationalist if they go to church on Sunday, instead of observing the Sabbath on Saturday. A person is a Dispensationalist if they do not participate in the practice of sacrificing animals for the remission of sins.

Even Berkhof, who essentially is the father to many Covenant Theologians, decreed that there were two major divisions; the Old Covenant and the New. However, it’s interesting to note that within the Old Covenant, he wound up further dividing it into FOUR other areas. While he stated they were all tied together, obviously he felt compelled to note them separately because of their differences.

Anyone who reads God’s Word and does not see ANY division in the way God worked with His creation (including humanity) has not really paid attention (IN MY OPINION).

There was a different responsibility placed on Adam and Eve than there was on the folks who died in the flood. It was not until AFTER the flood that capital punishment was instituted by God and He gave His permission to eat meat. These are simply different dispensations or stewardships. It’s not that tough.

There are extremes in EVERY branch of Eschatology and Covenant Theologians are NOT exempt from it, so to say that it’s mainly Dispensationalists that will say this or that is not only being untruthful, but simply not fair.

Yes, there are Ultra-Dispensationalists and Hyper-Dispensationalists and Progressive Dispensationalists. I can name most of the divisions within Covenant Theology as well.

As I said before, it is NOT that we disagree. It is HOW we treat each other WHEN we disagree.

Thank you very much, bogeydogg. I greatly appreciate your comments. I’m certain I could learn something from you.

You are truly blessed to have that persona. Amen. Pray for me, will you that the Lord will bless me with it also?


#18

There are only 73 Books.


#19

I think that’s actually a point where the “preterist” interpretation is strong. I think that the sack of Jerusalem and destruction of the Temple by pagan armies (carrying their sacred eagles, which Jews regarded as abominations) eminently qualifies for the “abomination that desecrates.”

What I find more problematic is the claim that the tribulation in question will be the greatest in human history. That doesn’t seem to fit the destruction of Jerusalem.

Edwin


#20

Actually, I go only by 66 books as inspired. I’ve read 1 & 2 Macc as well as other books from the Apochrypha, but I do not view them as inspired.


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.