How to reply to "Jesus wasn't God" post


#1

Hi everyone,

How can I enlighten another poster at another forum. I have copied and pasted her post below. She says that Jesus wasn’t God, because on the Cross, he was talking to God, calling him his Father. As a Catholic, I do understand the divinity of Jesus, but if I get into the Holy Trinity, I am afraid I will confuse this person. How would you reply to the message I have copied below?

Someone make sense of this one: When jesus was on the cross (so they say it was a cross but encyclopedias state they nailed boards to the trees for support) why did he ask his father to forgive them because they know not what they are doing. AND he asked his father why have you forsaken me?

I am sure Jesus wasn’t talking to himself.


#2

Someone make sense of this one: When jesus was on the cross (so they say it was a cross but encyclopedias state they nailed boards to the trees for support) why did he ask his father to forgive them because they know not what they are doing. AND he asked his father why have you forsaken me?

I am sure Jesus wasn’t talking to himself.

I fully understand the Trinity, but she does have a good point. Isn’t it The Son that forgives sins not The Father?


#3

[quote=levi86]I fully understand the Trinity, but she does have a good point. Isn’t it The Son that forgives sins not The Father?
[/quote]

Jesus had not died yet so the Jews were still under the Mosaic Covenant.

Re. her question about Jesus asking “Why have you forsaken me?”, here’s my take on this.
Jesus was fully God and also fully man. As a true man, He possessed true human nature so He was capable of feeling despair. It was His human nature that cried out to the Father, the same part of Him that asked for the cup of suffering to be taken away in the garden.

Most people tend to forget that Jesus was also fully man. Ask yourself this - why would the devil try to tempt Jesus in the desert? Didn’t he know that Jesus was God? It was the human part of Jesus that the devil was trying to get to fall into temptation.


#4

This is something I’ve never understood. If Jesus was fully God and had the full knowledge of God, right? then wouldn’t his knowledge of the divine plan over ride his human nature? Surely the Nature of God is more powerful than the nature of man?


#5

God never abadoned Jesus.

Jesus was quoting the first verse of Psalm 22 which was a prophecy of what He was going through.

Jesus recites verse 1 and my understanding is that just by saying the first verse the Jewish people there knew immediately He was referring to the Psalm.

Verses in the Psalm speak of casting lots for clothes, broken bones…I think verse 17, 18, and the last verse stands out.


#6

[quote=levi86]This is something I’ve never understood. If Jesus was fully God and had the full knowledge of God, right? then wouldn’t his knowledge of the divine plan over ride his human nature? Surely the Nature of God is more powerful than the nature of man?
[/quote]

To be exact, Jesus was fully divine, the second person of the Trinity. There are things that only the Father knows (Mark 13:32).

Jesus also chose to “suspend” His divine powers while on earth except for those powers the Father gave Him. You can see this is by His questions “Who touched me?” in Mark 5:30 and “How many loaves do you have?” in Mark 6:38. He should have already known the answers if He was omniscient, right?


#7

That sounds reasonable. However Christ was fully aware of what would happen to him, he knew that he would be sacrificed so that sins might be forgiven, and yet when that actually happened he seemed surprised. No disrespect intended.


#8

[quote=Humbled4Jesus]Hi everyone,

How can I enlighten another poster at another forum. I have copied and pasted her post below. She says that Jesus wasn’t God, because on the Cross, he was talking to God, calling him his Father. As a Catholic, I do understand the divinity of Jesus, but if I get into the Holy Trinity, I am afraid I will confuse this person. How would you reply to the message I have copied below?
[/quote]

John 14:8
Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied.”
[9] Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father;* how can you say, `Show us the Father’*?
[10] Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the **Father who dwells in me ** does his works.
[11] Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father in me; or else believe me for the sake of the works themselves.

The Trinity is a hard concept to grasp.


#9

[quote=levi86]I fully understand the Trinity…
[/quote]

Any time anyone says they “fully understand” a mystery of faith, the appropriate response is:

:nope:

To the OP’s problem: Jesus, the Son of God, isn’t allowed to talk to the Father? What a silly objection to the clearly stated premise of the New Testament that Jesus Christ is God.

– Mark L. Chance.


#10

[quote=Humbled4Jesus]Hi everyone,

How can I enlighten another poster at another forum. I have copied and pasted her post below. She says that Jesus wasn’t God, because on the Cross, he was talking to God, calling him his Father. As a Catholic, I do understand the divinity of Jesus, but if I get into the Holy Trinity, I am afraid I will confuse this person. How would you reply to the message I have copied below?
[/quote]

Read Psalm 22.

Perhaps Christ was praying as this Psalm certainly fits where he was at the time.


#11

[quote=mlchance]Any time anyone says they “fully understand” a mystery of faith, the appropriate response is:

:nope:

To the OP’s problem: Jesus, the Son of God, isn’t allowed to talk to the Father? What a silly objection to the clearly stated premise of the New Testament that Jesus Christ is God.

– Mark L. Chance.
[/quote]

Point taken, what I meant to say is that I understand the . :smiley:


#12

[quote=mlchance]Any time anyone says they “fully understand” a mystery of faith, the appropriate response is:

:nope:

To the OP’s problem: Jesus, the Son of God, isn’t allowed to talk to the Father? What a silly objection to the clearly stated premise of the New Testament that Jesus Christ is God.

– Mark L. Chance.
[/quote]

Good point. What I meant to say is that I understand the concept. :thumbsup:


#13

[quote=levi86]I fully understand the Trinity, but she does have a good point. Isn’t it The Son that forgives sins not The Father?
[/quote]

:rotfl: :rotfl:

Such a claim is incontravertable proof that you don’t fully understand the Trinity.


#14

Humbled4Jesus, is that a jw forum she posted from? Because, that sounds like a jw “arguement” if ever I’ve heard one.
They do not believe that Jesus was fully human and fully divine.
There is NO mystery in their religion.


#15

[quote=levi86]That sounds reasonable. However Christ was fully aware of what would happen to him, he knew that he would be sacrificed so that sins might be forgiven, and yet when that actually happened he seemed surprised. No disrespect intended.
[/quote]

As Pedro cited, Jesus had, in a sense, laid aside his divinity in order to be just like us, but as one who perfectly did the will of the Father.

Knowing that you will be engaged in an event and knowing all the details in advance but not reacting to them as anyone would certainly wouldn’t have been an authentic human response.

For example, the men who hit the beaches on D-Day knew about the mission, knew they would be fired upon, knew it would mean several of them dying, but when it actually happened, as things fell out in reality, they were just as appalled, shocked, surprised as any normal human being could be.

I think Jesus’ reacting in a very human way only supports his mission as the Son of Man sent to redeem the world.


#16

[quote=levi86]I fully understand the Trinity, but she does have a good point. Isn’t it The Son that forgives sins not The Father?
[/quote]

The Father does as well. So does the Holy Spirit. I believe that the Kyrie Eleison is addressed to all three persons of the Trinity. The first three Lord have Mercies are addressed to the Father. The Christ have mercies are obviously to the Son and I believe the last three Lord have mercies are addressed to the Holy Spirit. If I am wrong hopefully someone will correct me. The Our Father asks the Father to forgive us.


#17

Jesus is fully God and full man, “A man like us in all things but sin,” as the IV Eucharistic prayer states.
In his humanity, Jesus could be ill, feel pain and bleed. He had to take on this flesh in order to suffer his Passion and death, as God, pure spirit, cannot suffer physically.
There is a union, called the “hypostatic union,” between his divine and human natures.
This is why he could read the minds of the pharasees and the Jews and drive out demons and raise the dead on the one hand, and on the other hand, say, “No one knows the day or the hour but the Father.” Doing and speaking from one nature or the other.
Jews of the first century had all 150 Psalms memorized. Few of them could read. If one wanted to make a point from one of the psalms, he merely quoted the first line, e. g., “My god, My God, why hast Thou forsaken me?” from the 22 Psalm. It is indeed a prophesy of the Messiah and ends in victory for the initial victim.
This union is also why Jesus prayed to the Father, not only from the cross, but many times during his life.
Theology for Beginners by Sheed does one of the best jobs in describing this and the Trinity.


#18

Why make it complicated?

Matt 28:18-19

“All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”

  1. All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Jesus is therefore “all Powerful.” Since only God is all powerful, Jesus is God.

2))….baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. In the NAME (singular) - therefore Father, Son, Holy Spirit are one God.

Now that wasn’t so hard.

Thal59


closed #19

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