How to respond when someone brings up the infamous: Sex Scandal


#1

I know some Catholic apologists and other Catholics have been force to confront friends and co-workers about the sex scandal. I’m pretty new in this field and just bought Tim Staples CD set on this issue.

I recommend the following items, if you want to better yourself about the facts:

Confronting the Gay Agenda: The Catholic Truth About Homosexuality -By Tim Staples.

Fallen Fathers:Facts and Fallacies :Tim Staples Fr. Patrick Brannan Sexual abuse of children is a most despicable and deplorable crime. Unfortunately, the Roman Catholic Church in the United States has been racked with widespread reports and allegations of pedophilia and other sexual perversions involving .

Goodbye, Good Men Book On Tape:These days Catholics and non-Catholics alike are asking, "How did the American Catholic priesthood go from an image of wise, strong men like Spencer Tracy in Boys Town and Bing Crosby in Going My Way, to an image of "pedophile prie… (More) CD

Pedophiles and Priests: Anatomy of a Contemporary Crisis in 1996 by Philip Jenkins.

The John Jay College of Criminal Justice Report: The United Conference of Catholic Bishop on abuse scandal.

I’m sure this will clear out any false information about this problem.

My goal here is keep fellow Catholics inform on all issues concerning our faith.


#2

Homosexuality has nothing to do with pedophilia, though the differences are too subtle for many people to grasp.


#3

It does. Many of the abuses were done by priest who are homosexual and they did it with teenage boys. It is a known fact that in the 1960-1970s, liberal Catholics within the Church allowed homosexual priests into the seminary and were very tolerant of their behavior.

There is a seminary in Maryland called, “the Pink Palace.”


#4

But the scandal in question almost always involved adolescent boys, so it was not pedophilia at all in most cases, but pederasty which is indeed a specifically homosexual issue. The media made it out to be something it was not because of fear of offending homosexuals. But the reality is the sex scandal was a homosexual sex scandal.

And the links between same sex pedophilia are often done by homosexuals but that is not allowed in politically correct discourse so the evidence is suppressed by the media. Take a look at the case of Jeffrey Curly. It is one example of gay, NAMBLA types committing horrible crimes. Not to same that all homosexuals do this, but the link is there.

Mel


#5

The cases where priests were found guilty of sex abuse are guilty of ephebophilia. This means sexual interest in those around the age of puberty, or older. The ages of child is 12-17 yrs of age.

The term pedophile is in correct. pedophile is sexual interest prepubescent youths (before the age of reason or not capable of sexual reproduction). This age range is between 8 and under.

I like to quote Philipp Jenkins on this:

I tend not to use this word any more, though it has some value. It arises from the idea that most misconduct cases with minors involve young people of 14-18. There is a technical term here, ephebophilia, meaning sexual interest in those around the age of puberty, or older. It seems silly to me, since in most societies, this is a normal age for marriage, so why can we call it a psychiatric disturbance? Also, if the word carries no meaning for most people, best not to use it. But the word does carry the important message that most "pedophile cases involve no such behavior — they involve young people of 16 not 6. The proper word for a man who has sex with a boy of 16 or 17 is homosexuality

Source: staycatholic.com/the_myths.htm


#6

What I understand of the issue has to do with the nature of early 20th century seminary practices. We had minor seminaries and juniorates where boys from 13 years old were being molded for priesthood and celibacy.

This was simply unacceptable. These future priests had not grown up and had no sense of their own sexuality, and were forced to effectively deny any personal sense of sexuality from those teen days onwards. This suppressed sexuality, in combination with the all male environment they lived in, produced SSA in a few cases.

What I say whenever this is brought up, is that paedophilia in the priesthood was the product of an unacceptable and outdated practice which is no longer the order of the day.


#7

I get people to shush up about the sex scandal by letting them know about my own past…where I was the victim of molestation for two years in a Protestant church. Big scandal there that has never been reported or taken care of. Many young girl’s lives destroyed. All kept hush hush. Most people I know who like to bring up the Catholic sex scandal are Protestant so they usually are quiet and change the subject after my little story.

Then again I guess maybe I scare them, since it is a touchy issue for me.


#8

I would also recommend The Courage To Be Catholic by George Weigel. I haven’t read the whole thing, but what I have read has been pretty good.


#9

I think that the whole scandal was very poorly handled in many cases. That being said, it is not a problem confined to the Catholic Church.

I would say "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.’


#10

I suggest you not be so quick to judge people. I am sorry that you were abused. How many decades did you live with your secret? Probably not that long.
Try living with the shame and guilt and self loathing for 20, 30 or even 40 years, and then when it finally seems like there is a ray of light, a glimmer of hope of finally escaping the prison that has isolated you from your faith, your church, members of your body, and your God, you are hushed up…it is clear, it is not safe to come home.

Maybe the “Protestant” who is asking (btw, people are more than labels) is a Catholic living in an self imposed exile because she wasn’t lucky enough to be abused by a Protestant Pastor, but was hurt by a Catholic Priest.
Even walking into a Catholic church means wrestling with flashbacks, memories, and doubts; Try to even form those words in a confessional when you miss Mass week after week.

Maybe when someone brings up the abuse scandal in a seemingly “outsider way” (the only safe way) in an effort to “test the waters” to see if it might be safe to approach the Church again. Will she be seen as a victim or a betrayer for speaking the truth. Will she be accepted, as she is: weak in faith, slow to trust, and allow God to soften a heart that has been cold as stone.
Will the price of admission to The Church, to Salvation be a return to that lonely dark prison of denial and silence.
Will those in the Church who live day by day in God’s mercy and have been forgiven much have no mercy to spare for one who wears the scars she received in the house of her family, and struggles daily with forgiveness.

I am sorry if the sins of the Priests and Bishops of the Catholic Church make you (not just you personally, but most of the laity) uncomfortable.
Many have been robbed of the Graces of the Church because of violence done to them and a lifetime spent trying to overcome their fear and pain. That they should now continue to be robbed of those Graces because fellow Catholics find it uncomfortable to have reminders of this painful scandal sitting next to them in the pew every Sunday is an even greater scandal.

The original question: How to respond when someone brings up the infamous: Sex Scandal?

How do you respond to any human being, any other time…as a unique person, a human being who bears the image of God.
There is no sin, so subject, no question they ask that should change the fact that is the essence of the person who is standing before you.


#11

I feel everything should be open to discussion, I am not a believer in “Political Correctness”. Anything I place here is not meant to offend anyone. However it is unavoidable if I wish to speak truths leaving “Political Correctness” to others.

Anyway no matter our sexual preferences and what sexual feelings or sex preferences we were born with. If I am straight - Gay - Pedophilia or any other of the sexual possibilities, I should know what is morally right and wrong. The sex scandal was for the most part the Pedophilias. Yet Homosexuality - and/or the many other immoral sexual preferences are hurting self and others to often.

Sex not love - is a huge social problem. It is and was not just a problem with the Priests with in the Catholic Church. However the screening and monitoring Priest - Church Staff and other was very poorly done.:mad:

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P5Z.HTM Perhaps also clarify my position concerning this subject.

Thank you for reading:)

Werman


#12

We don’t throw out the entire police force due a few crooked cops. Likewise, the same thing applies to the Catholic faith too. :slight_smile:


#13

These are good points. Thank you for sharing this. :slight_smile:


#14

When I am confronted with these charges against the CC and how evil the CC is, I offer the accuser the Catholic Bible and Catechism and challenge them to show me where this type of behavior is approved of, supported by the CC, and general accepted by the faithful. I then explain that a pedophile priest was a pedophile/predator before he was a priest, and it could have ties to homosexuality or not, it really does not matter. Pedophiles/predators are notorious for seeking out positions that put them in close proximity of potential victims e.g. teachers, scout leaders, day care workers, youth pastors of other than Catholic denominations, and many others. The priesthood is just one of them. Yes, the CC mishandled the initial out cry of abuse, either due to lack of experience, ability, or willing cover up, but it is now being dealt with, as it should be. The victims are in need of our prayers for healing and we need to pray for the CC to take the right path in dealing with this issue.


#15

:slight_smile: Yes!

Werman


#16

That’s very interesting. So what do you think about schools like Immaculate Conception in NH. A Legion of Christ boarding school for 7-12th grade boys in NH? I’m sure there are others, but that’s the only one I know of. i wonder if these schools produce a similar problem.


#17

I think the best way to respond to someone bringing up the scandals is that to say that the Church has always been experiencing scandals all throughout Her history and has continuously outlived the scandals… At the time of the earliest Christians there have been scandals… Remember Judas? And just check 1 Corinthians… It was already a time of scandal back then. Fact is “scandals” are really just stumbling blocks just as its etymology shows… Skandalon means a stumbling block.


#18

:eek: I suppose it is possible that more study time should have been on the Moral Consience and Scripture Rom1:29 and other.

"Article 6 vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P5Y.HTM

MORAL CONSCIENCE

1776 "Deep within his conscience man discovers a law which he has not laid upon himself but which he must obey. Its voice, ever calling him to love and to do what is good and to avoid evil, sounds in his heart at the right moment… For man has in his heart a law inscribed by God… His conscience is man’s most secret core and his sanctuary. There he is alone with God whose voice echoes in his depths.“47”

Werman


#19

My response is:

  1. If the person is trying to say that since scandals happen within Catholicism that also means that it can’t be the Church Jesus established, or that all Christianity or “religion” is wrong then by the same token since there are scandals within other areas does that make them wrong too? No.
    There are pedofile Doctors does that mean all medical practice is false? No.
    Since there are scandals and pedofile Laywers, does that mean all law is wrong? No.
    Since there is scandals and pedofile Policeman, does that make all Police activities wrong? No.
    Since there are scandals and pedofile teachers, does that make all education wrong? No.
    The point is that this type of argument is again one from emotion, NOT from thought-out reason and if we applied it to every facet of society all groups would guilty too.

  2. Within Christianity (specifically the Bible), there have been a plethora of scandals that have happened, yet God in His infinite mercy and justice works through these acts of evil.
    For example:
    In Jeremiah 32:32-35 some Old Testament leaders and priests offered child sacrifices.
    2 Kings 23:7 Cult prostitutes we in the Temple of the Lord!
    “He [God] tore down the apartments of the cult prostitutes which were in the temple of the LORD, and in which the women wove garments for the Asherah.”

This but a few of the many scandals that happened with some the Israelites, yet Jesus still said in John 4:22 that salvation IS from the Jews even though they were at times filled with coruption and scandal. God worked through His Church, as He does now and Jesus promised that His Church would not fall, Mt 16:18-19.

A few months ago, one of the JW’s on this forum made mention of the scandals in the Catholic Church and I showed him where there are also pedofiles who are JW’s, happening within the Jehovah’s Wittness groups and to be fair and not to single them out, scandals and pedofiles of all kinds happen in ALL facets of life; Police officers, Doctors, Lawyers, Politicians, CEO’s et al areas of life. Certainly is does also happen in Protestantism, EO’s and in all non-Christian groups. I’ve seen on the news and read articles that give evidence of such sin taking place everywhere. I happened to be scanning the T.V. a few days ago, (which I rarely watch anyway) and Larry King had Protestant T.V. evangelist Paula White on his show explaining and defending her recent allegations from a supposed scandal in her ministry.
The facts are that man is sinful, darkened by the fall, and some people choose by their free will choice to do evil and the Catholic Church is NO different from other parts of the world because it is made up of people who have free will, therefore that argument is a very bad one.


#20

I agree. I have protestant friends who LOVE to remind me how “perverted” the leadership of my church is. At such point I mention I do not know a single priest who has been guilty of molestation. I do, however, know a youth pastor who is guilty of statutory rape, a pastor who was found cheating on his wife, a pastor who left his wife and kids with a man for drugs. etc…

The thing is, with the youth pastor who was found sleeping with a 15 year old, the church was very good in covering it up. No one told anyone why he was fired. The way they dealt with it was to Discreetly fire the pastor for some other lame reason, then when this charge was brought out they say “We knew something was wrong so we fired him, he wasn’t part of the clergy” so they don’t have to claim the abuse to the leadership above them. They never told te congregation, and told those of us who know to keep it hush. That’s the common act of all the churches in my old Denom, which is why they boast “such low sex scandal rates.”


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