How to win the laicism?


#1

Here in Europe we have many dictatorship of the laicism, they think that the religion is a private thing, something similar with the ACLU, what do we have to do?


#2

[quote=Franze]Here in Europe we have many dictatorship of the laicism, they think that the religion is a private thing, something similar with the ACLU, what do we have to do?
[/quote]

And what is so bad about laicism? It is the only way to guarantee freedom of religion. Do you want to live in a country where Islam or Hinduisms or Protestantism is state religion?

Besides, Turkey is the only purely laicistic country in Europe. The diversion of state and religion is much stricter in the US than in any European country I know of. Well, except France perhaps.


#3

[quote=AnAtheist]And what is so bad about laicism? It is the only way to guarantee freedom of religion. Do you want to live in a country where Islam or Hinduisms or Protestantism is state religion?

Besides, Turkey is the only purely laicistic country in Europe. The diversion of state and religion is much stricter in the US than in any European country I know of. Well, except France perhaps.
[/quote]

Hello, atheist, thank for the answer, I think that there are many non-laicist countries where there are freedom of religion, but in a regime like french or turkish where the religion is a priavte thing is like cutting the wings of the religion.
Christianism is for announcing everybody, and like it have happened in Germany, where a nun has been forbidden for wearing the nun´s clothes, is very sad.


#4

[quote=AnAtheist]Besides, Turkey is the only purely laicistic country in Europe. The diversion of state and religion is much stricter in the US than in any European country I know of. Well, except France perhaps.
[/quote]

I don’t think that is the case. Theoretically, Turkey has freedom of religion, but in practice Islam is ingrained into the thoughts and actions of its political structure. Have you seen the rooms full of Bibles confiscated by the postal service? Have you seen the police files on “missionaries” from other religions who are known to be in the country? How about the 1997/1998 coup by the military to take out the radical Islamic party that was in office?


#5

[quote=Franze]Here in Europe we have many dictatorship of the laicism, they think that the religion is a private thing, something similar with the ACLU, what do we have to do?
[/quote]

Pray
Fast
Live as an example
Adore the Eucharist
Receive the Eucharist
Talk about your religion
Be ready to answer questions


#6

[quote=Franze]Hello, atheist, thank for the answer, I think that there are many non-laicist countries where there are freedom of religion, but in a regime like french or turkish where the religion is a priavte thing is like cutting the wings of the religion.
[/quote]

Why? I find the alternative a great deal more dangerous, not only for non-believers like myself but for religious too. If you happen to follow the “wrong” religion, what then?

Christianism is for announcing everybody, and like it have happened in Germany, where a nun has been forbidden for wearing the nun´s clothes, is very sad.

Where and when did that happen? I haven’t heard of that, and I do live in Germany.


#7

[quote=Deus Solus]Have you seen the rooms full of Bibles confiscated by the postal service? Have you seen the police files on “missionaries” from other religions who are known to be in the country?
[/quote]

No, haven’t heard of that. But if it’s true, it is not right of course.

How about the 1997/1998 coup by the military to take out the radical Islamic party that was in office?

I am quite happy about the military taking out a radical Islamic party, and restoring the laicistic, democratic (well, more or less) state Kemal Atatürk has envisioned. As yet another Islamic state is the last thing I want in this world. And certainly not that close to our doorstep.


#8

[quote=AnAtheist]I am quite happy about the military taking out a radical Islamic party, and restoring the laicistic, democratic (well, more or less) state Kemal Atatürk has envisioned. As yet another Islamic state is the last thing I want in this world. And certainly not that close to our doorstep.
[/quote]

I agree that the coup deposing Erbakan was a good thing for the secular government Atatürk envisioned. Definitely Turkey has the unique position of being the only truly “secular Islamic” nation in the world. Having lived there for 15 years though, I know it is still far from being a political structure with the degree of religious neutrality that say, Switzerland has.

For example, according to a 1997 poll, some 75% of Turks believe Islamic values should play a larger role in their society; 72% think there should be more religious education in schools; and a worryingly high 25% say Turkey should be governed according to Sharia law.


#9

[quote=AnAtheist]Why? I find the alternative a great deal more dangerous, not only for non-believers like myself but for religious too. If you happen to follow the “wrong” religion, what then?

Where and when did that happen? I haven’t heard of that, and I do live in Germany.
[/quote]

Here atheist
dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1355371,00.html
Greetings


#10

[quote=AnAtheist]And what is so bad about laicism? It is the only way to guarantee freedom of religion. Do you want to live in a country where Islam or Hinduisms or Protestantism is state religion?
[/quote]

In Britain, we have two state, or established, religions - one for England, one for Scotland: both Protestant.

Neither is markedly unfriendly to Catholicism - if anything, all three tend to complain of the practical materialism of society.

And all are free - religious liberty is guaranteed: the real threat to our liberties is from a nanny state and from political correctness: and from the EU.

I wouldn’t like to live in a clericalist state - partly because this is very bad for the Church: Jesus did not want His followers to domineer over others - He specifically forbade this. ##

Besides, Turkey is the only purely laicistic country in Europe. The diversion of state and religion is much stricter in the US than in any European country I know of. Well, except France perhaps.


#11

[quote=Franze]Here atheist
dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1355371,00.html
Greetings
[/quote]

I see.

Well, they are forbidden to wear “religiously motivated clothing” (or whatever you like to call it), if they want to be employed in public service. That’s forbidden for any religion, and the orignal idea for that law was to stop the spreading of Islamic ideas in schools. But that’s a part of equality of men, what you forbid one religon you can’t allow another one.


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