Reading these threads there seems to be several issues that keep popping up. If you could improve the Mass what would you do.?
Follow the G.I.R.M. and no improvements are needed.
Our priest always gives a good sermon on the Gospel, but I would like him to occasionally talk about the doctrines of the Church as well.
The main thing is just to have parishes follow the laws regarding the liturgy. Better/more traditional music would be nice too.
I have read that the Novus Ordo originally could be said facing the tabernacle. That is one improvement I think that could be made without changing the Missal.
Also, I don’t think that lay people should be in the sanctuary. They take away from the dignity and uniqueness of the Priestly role.
Kneeling for Communion and the wearing of head coverings would help restore reverence and devotion to the Mass.
The ICL translation of the Novus Ordo into English is a wretched paraphrasing of the Novus Ordo Missae. Often times, the meaning of the words is actually changed, and many of the theological elements of the Pauline Rite are missing in the English Mass. This is not an accident. I know Latin, no one could make such mistakes unless they didn’t know Latin at all. We deserve a better translation of the Mass Paul VI intended to give us.
Finally, I think architecture has everything to do with it. At my home parish, our Novus Ordo Church is in the traditional cruciform style, with a beautiful old marble altar in the front. Occasionally I have to attend Mass at another Church where it looks like a modernist warehouse. Good architecture lifts up the soul and brings us toward God, bad architecture bring us down.
Those are my thoughts. Changes such as this, coupled with strict observance of the rubrics would bring dignity, reverence, and devotion back to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
Peace be with you,
I voted for almost all of your suggestions. Concerning Latin, if it were to be used in the *Novus Ordo, *I think perhaps the old Canon should be restored in Latin. That way, the people could learn the Word and be catechized in the vernacular during the Liturgy of the Word, while the sacred language of the Church was used for the Liturgy of the Eucharist. A Latin Canon would remind us of the Catholicity of the Church. You could go anywhere in the world and the Mass would be the same.
I think this is a good discussion.
I agree with ServusChristi.
The missal itself isnt really a problem, the way it is celbrated is. My solution is eliminate altar girls, eliminate the cup for communion of the precious blood, and if both species will have had for communion, do it via intinction(dipping the host in the blood), eliminate lay lectors when a Deacon is avilable, require all clergy assigned to a parish be on the altar to distribute communion at all Sunday and day of obligation masses, return to the communion rail for distribution of communion.
I said move the sign of peace to the beginning of Mass. I’m not totally against it, but it seems a little forced to me. I just find it artificial, and it would seem more real if it weren’t in the middle of the liturgy.
I’m not much of a touchy feely type anyways, and forced handshaking is not my cup of tea actually. I would prefer a simple greeting at the beginning of Mass. Plus, always saying the same thing makes me feel like a robot. It just seems like phoney friendliness…
It seems like all the selections were how to improve Mass by making it more conservative. I would not have voted for some of the below, but it would have added balance.
Better music (more contemporary)
Allow lay homilies
I don’t mean to send a chill up your spine. I would just be curious as to what kind of balance there is in these forums.
The Mass is the Mass. With or without changes, it is perfect, in that the Sacrifice is perfect. I can improve its effectiveness by bringing more of myself to it and thereby allowing it to produce all that it can in me at each celebration.
[quote=JNB]The missal itself isnt really a problem, the way it is celbrated is.
But your “solution” is to eliminate things that are all perfectly valid (whether in the missal itself or the GIRM, I don’t know). In particular, I will never understand why requiring things like kneeling for Communion, head coverings, priest facing away from the people or increased use of Latin, would help restore reverence and devotion. Reverence and devotion are internal qualities and forcing a return to practices of the past would not affect reverence and devotion in most people.
I agree with T.A. - follow the GIRM, simply do what the Church asks. If the GIRM changes, follow it.
Less tube-tops, belly-shirts, gum chewing; more humility before the very real presence of Christ would be nice . . . otherwise the Mass is perfect by itself.
Most of the things people would like to see can be covered during the week in occasional programs and workshops. I’d like to see more adult classes on the Cathecism and living a Catholic life offered during the week–perhaps the same night our kids are there for their training, since we’re coming back in a few hours, anyway! (A captive audience is still an audience.)
Improving the Mass is probably a misnomer. Obviously, the Sacrifice is perfect as several people have pointed out. I think the question is more on the externals of the Mass. What fosters reverence? What helps people to understand what is going on at Mass? What is most pleasing to God in terms of how we act at the Mass? etc…
Let us admit that reverence in Church and good catechesis go hand and hand. What is most unfortunate is the ones that behave the worst and have the least information on why we do what we do are the cradle Catholics complete with a Catholic School education. I am never more amazed at a Knights of Columbus, Parish Council and Secular Franciscan meeting where the most Protestant theology arises. I sometimes wonder if cradle Catholics just having their faith handed to them was too easy. Unfortunately even if there were classes outside of Mass, the ones who would show up are the ones who are reverent already.
Let us Pray
There are several ways to interpret this question–I understood it to mean juridical and structural changes to the GIRM. Many of the ideas mentioned are good ones but could already be done through simple parish practice rather than rewriting the GIRM. Regarding modesty, there are more than a few parishes that still have signs in the narthex delineating dress codes or no talking rules. The biggest change I would make: I wish Latin Rite Catholics had some Latin in every Mass–even if it were just the Agnus Dei. We are the biggest Rite within the Church, but sadly with the least amount of our own culture and history in our Mass. But I can’t see eliminating Communion under both species just to return to an idea of “tradition”–this would be a structural change that poses some serious theological difficulties.
lol. If the Novus Ordo was celebrated as outlined by Vatican II, all of the poll suggestions would not be necessary, for they were all already in the GIRM, to my understanding! (Well, except for moving the Sign of Peace, which I’d suggest be done away with entirely. Takes the focus off Jesus and the altar, placing it “us.”)
Most of the other suggestions, we simply have added and taken away from the original Novus Ordo.
Your poll might have been phrased, How would we improve the GIRM?
[quote=JNB]The missal itself isnt really a problem, the way it is celbrated is. My solution is eliminate altar girls, eliminate the cup for communion of the precious blood, and if both species will have had for communion, do it via intinction(dipping the host in the blood), eliminate lay lectors when a Deacon is avilable, require all clergy assigned to a parish be on the altar to distribute communion at all Sunday and day of obligation masses, return to the communion rail for distribution of communion.
I agree wholeheartedly with this statement!
I also agree with Servus Christi.
In particular, the greatest improvement that could be made, would be if we all received Holy Communion on our knees.
Read Cardinal Ratzinger’s The Theology of Kneeling sometime. Even if you’re opposed to kneeling, it’s a fascinating read! catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=4607
Pax Christi. <><
[quote=WhiteDove]I said move the sign of peace to the beginning of Mass. I’m not totally against it, but it seems a little forced to me. I just find it artificial, and it would seem more real if it weren’t in the middle of the liturgy.
I agree. I sing in the choir so I greet the same people all thte time. It seems a little trite.
Thanks. I can’t see why people don’t agree with kneeling at the altar rail. It is such a beautiful and humble gesture when receiving our LORD. I also want to point out that Pope John Paul II will not give Communion in the hand. Infact, in Poland the practice is illicit.
Uh, that’s totally incorrect. I’ve been to Poland twice and noticed that most people receive in the hand. My late husband was Polish.
I havent been to Poland, just based on what I read, the bishops conference in Poland has yet to allow communion on the hand there, but I guess that depends on the parish as well. I have heard that quite a few parishes in Poland still use the altar rail.