@Gazelam One of the many issues with using a single verse or two to prove a point, as though saying the writer intended this little piece to say this is The scriptures weren’t written that way. The writers of both the old and new testaments wrote in chapters and paragraphs using sentences. The numbering of chapters and verses came more than a 1000 years later. So while the bible is truly the inspired word of God, the numbering system is made of man.

More proof Catholics read the bible correctly using the context of the culture, the audience, and the writer.


A sincere question.

Has this thread become about explaining the position of one’s faith, or is it about the competition that arises when one is trying to win an argument?

Christ would just make His point about any particular point…and then walk away. In fact there were times He would even remain silent

He didnt stay engaged in an argument ad nauseam.

Since both Catholics and Mormons believe that humility is a virtue, perhaps some examination of conscience would be of value. Taking a time out to consider the intent of one’s heart.


I’ll give you my opinion and it’s just that so take it or leave it. I don’t think the Mormons here are trying to win an argument. I think they know they made a big mistake when they left the Catholic Church and now they are trying to justify their bad choices by trolling CAF and trying to convince THEMSELVES that they didn’t screw up. Mormons like to use the phrase, “they can leave the church but they can’t leave it alone.” I’ve seen that a lot. I’ve seen ex Mormons who troll Mormon forums and spout off a lot of anti-Mormon dribble just to justify their actions of leaving. Former Catholics so the same. I just look at this simply from my perspective. I left Mormonism because I knew it was a lie. That was good enough for me. I’m secure in my faith and I don’t need to troll Mormon web sites to justify what I’ve done. It’s between me and my God and I look forward to judgment day. The Mormons who troll CAF have no confidence in what they have done so their arguments are just a way of trying to convince themselves that they didn’t mess up. It’s all about pride.

Just my 2 cents worth.


I think part of it is that the Mormons here do hope to lead others away from the Catholic faith. They can’t come right out and say that, but they have been targeting this young OP for just that purpose.


I see I committed HUGH blunder, instead of engaging in my usually sound apologetics. :wink:

I meant to quote Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Sorry about that!

Please share how audience, culture, and author illuminate these verses and refute my claim.

I know nothing of, but it very well could be in since it supports nicely the Latter-day Saint view on this matter. Please feel free to offer information refuting Fr. Jaki on this topic. After all, we’re on CAF debate forum!!


Fair perspective, Lemuel, and thanks for sharing it. I do think there is value in what you say. It seems that that every time a thread on Mormonism pops up, practically the s.a.m.e posters end up getting into the s.a.m.e. arguments ad nauseam, over the s.a.m.e points. I don’t know if they are trying to convince themselves, or the other person, or if they are trying to “win” some argument.

Over and over.

Can we stop beating this already dead, very dead, horse, and bury it? We get it. Mormons don’t have the same doctrines, the same belief system as the rest of most Christendom.



Fair enough.
That said, Sarah has already come to the decision that Mormonism isn’t for her, and she did so doing her own reading and own research.


She is clearly very bright and I pray for her happiness.


She is both very bright, and very mature for her age. I, too, pray for her happiness.


I totally agree. I stopped reading their arguments long ago. That horse is very dead.


Who then, should get to define Christian?

I wonder if LDS consider Jehovah Witnesses Christian? They believe Jesus is the son of God, but not part of the Trinity.

Rejecting almost 2,000 years of a common belief in the Trinity…

I wonder which religious sect was the first to deny the Trinity?


What was that Christmas program about?
Was it at the Tuacahn Theatre?


Please explain how the God of the LDS is so totally different than the God of Judaism.

Jewish teaching states that God does not have a body.


Where does the Holy Spirit fit Into your
(and Mormon) reasoning of the Trinity? You mention the Father and the Son (Jesus) but conveniently leave out the Holy Spirit . The Holy Spirit is the third in the Trinity.

While the word “Trinity” is not found in the Bible, there is plenty of Scrptural evidence of the Triune God (not Gods) within it’s pages.

How do you (and Mormons) explain the Baptism of Jesus in the River Jordan? The Father, Son and Holy Spirit were all present in the same place at the same time.


I’m not so sure that your understanding is correct. Note what Origen (who did not believe in a corporeal God) said about the early Christians and Jews of his day.

The Jews indeed, but also some of our people, supposed that God should be understood as a man, that is, adorned with human members and human appearance. But the philosophers despise these stories as fabulous and formed in the likeness of poetic fictions. (Origen, Homilies on Genesis 3:1)


A great question! Latter-day Saint believe that the Holy Ghost is the third member of the Godhead and is a divine being. Unlike the Father and the Son, the Holy Ghost does not have a physical body.

I believe the Holy Ghost was present at the baptism of Jesus to testify of the validity of that event (as was the Father)

We believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three divine, but separate and distinct personages. We do not believe that the Three share the same “essence” in the sense expressed by the Nicene Creed.

I hope this helps…


The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not formally keep track of which other faiths they believe to be Christian.

If any individual Latter-day Saint states that someone is or is not Christian he or she is expressing his or her own opinion.


Mormons worry over which of the followers of Smith are legit.

Christians worry over which of the followers of Jesus are legit.


If I am not mistaken, most Protestant denominations do not believe in the Trinity. I know for a fact that Lutherans do not, but I am not entirely sure about others. Lutherans might be the first, because, again, assuming I am not mistaken, Lutherans were one of the first Protestant denominations. Feel free to correct me politely if I am wrong.


There are at least 3 Trinity Lutheran Churches near me so without digging into their doctrine I would say they believe in the Trinity.

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