I have run into the argument, more than once, that a human soul must be immortal, but I don’t remember the details of the argument. Perhaps something to do with the soul being immaterial, but not sure. Does anybody know more about this argument?
One argument I’ve heard was that a desire always corresponds to a real thing.
For an example, we desire food when we feel hungry and drink when we are thirsty. It follows that food is real and drink are real because the body was built to naturally crave it. On a spiritual level, we are always searching for the infinite; we are never completely satisfied with the finite. It follows that an infinite reality/state of being must exist because every human craves it in one form or another.
My understanding is : All souls belong to God.
Our bodies are just a shell (dust) but even so we must respect our body as the Lord blessed us with this gift on earth.
When our souls are breathed in to our body by the Hoy Spirit , the Lord will also place the need for us as an individually to : seek - want - live forever .
This is God’s fail safe system so to speak.
God knows humans heart all to well. So even a sinner desires the wish to live longer eternal or a non believer.
Some souls will always refuse God even when he’s given them every opportunity to return.
By word of his Son , inbuilt need for eternity and of course though choices and gifts we receive on earth.
All human bodies will return to dust. All Souls are eternal and will be judged accordingly.
If I am wrong please tell me but these are my beliefs .
King David’s knowledge of The Lord was full of wisdom even after the demand of his child’s death.
This was written before Jesus came , before many scriptures …
2 Samuel 12:23
“But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.”
You can see why God loved David so much.
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
The text reads plainly, “only”. That word is directly connected to God and not another in scripture. Just in case we might not understand that verse, God provided another in contrast:
Job_4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
No one said a human body is immortal ?
The question is ones soul.
Mankind was made in the Image of God, true, but that does not grant mankind immortality anymore than it grants mankind other attributes pertaining to God alone, such as omnipresence, and omniscience, omnipathos.
I understand; the “soul” is not immortal:
Eze_18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Eze_18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Here’s 7 proofs for the immortality of the soul https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/seven-proofs-for-the-natural-immortality-of-the-human-soul
I want a starship with a warp drive, transporter, and holodeck.
How’s that ‘always’ in the argument looking now?
I also want a square with only three corners and a married bachelor.
"""“I have run into the argument, more than once, that a human soul must be immortal, but I don’t remember the details of the argument. Perhaps something to do with the soul being immaterial, but not sure. Does anybody know more about this argument?”""
Similar arguments stem from Scriptures Themselves - of which Faith Itself reveals the Truth… Christians generally do not go about seeking a Legion of Logical Arguments - so as to ostensibly “prove” everything contained - most especially wrt the Gospel… Faith-fueled Grasping of the Teachings contained within - presents to the Faithful sufficient Understanding…
In other words, Faith (In Jesus) is always the Key which opens the Door.
The Holy Scriptures define “living soul” as the whole Person/Being or Creature:
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Beasts, also, are “living souls”.
The Bible speaks of soul as in the totality of the dust + breath in either man or animal:
And levy a tribute unto the LORD of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, [both] of the persons , and of the beeves , and of the asses , and of the sheep : Num. 31:28
Cows [beeves, bovine], asses and sheep also are “souls”.
Is this an isolated case, or is this noted through all of scripture? It is throughout scripture:
For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts ; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other ; yea, they have all one breath ; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast : for all [is] vanity. Ecc. 3:19
… man : and every living soul died in the sea . Rev. 16:3
… he giveth to all life , and breath, and all things; Acts 17:25
In whose hand is the soul of every living thing , and the breath of all mankind. Job 12:10
But if the priest buy any soul with his money, he shall eat of it , and he that is born in his house: they shall eat of his meat . Lev. 22:11
See Joshua 10 , …
“…he utterly destroyed, them, and all the souls that were therein …” Jos. 10:28
“…he smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain in it …” Jos. 10:30
“…and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein …” Jos. 10:32
“…smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein he utterly destroyed that day …” Jos. 10:35
And they took it, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof, and all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining , according to all that he had done to Eglon; but destroyed it utterly, and all the souls that were therein. Jos. 10:37
" … utterly destroyed all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining …" Jos. 10:39
So Joshua … he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed , as the LORD God of Israel commanded. Jos. 10:40
… “And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city , both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass , with the edge of the sword .” Jos. 6:21
…just as Joshua did to Haxor, so he did to those cities, “And they smote all the souls that were therein with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying them : there was not any left to breathe : and he burnt Hazor with fire.” Jos. 11:11
We’re not talking about God’s attributes; we’re talking about human nature, as granted by God. We have immortal souls. The Church teaches this explicitly (see the Catechism at #1022).
@SetInMotion, your prooftexting is in error, if you think it means that souls are not immortal. In the NAB, this is translated as:
Yes, I get it that the RSV-CE says “soul”, but to understand it, we’d have to look deeply into how the ancient Jews understood the concepts of ‘person’ and ‘soul.’ Clearly, the Church teaches that humans have immortal souls.
My understanding is that the catechism says so based on personal and general judgement. I don’t see a philosophical necessity for it since we aren’t essential beings.
This one doesn’t work since your just saying gobbledygook.
Do you genuinely not get the point that Techie is making? Let me spell it out for you: claiming that if one wants something it must therefore exist, is ridiculous. The statement
is completely vacuous.
I know what he’s saying, Fred. But you can’t even want those things because you aren’t saying you want a thing. They aren’t even ideas. You can want things that could conceivably exist, even if only in the imagination, but don’t, like his former post.
You actually edited a block quote to insert “sic”? Did you wash your hands three times and alphabetize your soup cans?