Humans and other life forms


#1

I was wondering… why do humans pretend they will have an afterlife - hell, purgatory, heaven or whatever? Why can’t animals, plants, other life forms aspire such an afterlife? Animals, plants etc… don’t kill each other except for a biological need (food, procreation,…), not because of desire (for power, for money, for sexual relationships, etc., in one word, for possessing something). Don’t they deserve the Kingdom of Heaven much more than we humans do? I find this claim of humans far too presumptuous. We are all suffering from ancient Greek hubris, like Prometheus did.
My cat’s don’t need religion, nor morality. Let alone that life-burdening concept of ‘sin’! How happy my cats must be, purring, sleeping, eating, not burdened by ‘guilt, sin or remorse’ (just like the ancient Greeks weren’t, and how wise they were indeed!) and having sexual relations whenever Nature calls them to?


#2

Your name and phiosophy seem to have a disconnect between them.

Cats…along with all other animals (I’m not even going into the plant kingdom) have no free will or capacity for charitable love. They aspire to and do nothing more than satisfy their basic needs, hungers, drives, etc.

Man, by contrast has been gifted with both intellect and conscience. In employing these gifts he can aspire to not only self-knowledge, but knowledge of the world surrounding him and ultimately knowledge of God. With this knowledge he can, through an exercise of the will, employ his conscience to aid and improve the conditions for his fellow humans (and even other creatures) not merely because it serves his self-interest but out of compassion and generosity. These are capabilities which enable us to know the benevolence of God the creator and redeemer, who not only gives us our life on earth, but enables us to anticipate and yearn for a life free of mortal, physical limitations where we can exist in his presence for eternity.


#3

[quote=Pious Redeemer]I was wondering… why do humans pretend they will have an afterlife - hell, purgatory, heaven or whatever? Why can’t animals, plants, other life forms aspire such an afterlife? Animals, plants etc… don’t kill each other except for a biological
. . . My cat’s don’t need religion, nor morality. Let alone that life-burdening concept of ‘sin’! How happy my cats must be, purring, sleeping, eating, not burdened by ‘guilt, sin or remorse’ (just like the ancient Greeks weren’t, and how wise they were indeed!) and having sexual relations whenever Nature calls them to?
[/quote]

your cats could not care less about the afterlife, they have it all in this life, cats do not aspire, they respire and that’s about it.


#4

[quote=Pious Redeemer]I was wondering… why do humans pretend they will have an afterlife - hell, purgatory, heaven or whatever? Why can’t animals, plants, other life forms aspire such an afterlife? Animals, plants etc… don’t kill each other except for a biological need (food, procreation,…), not because of desire (for power, for money, for sexual relationships, etc., in one word, for possessing something). Don’t they deserve the Kingdom of Heaven much more than we humans do? I find this claim of humans far too presumptuous. We are all suffering from ancient Greek hubris, like Prometheus did.
My cat’s don’t need religion, nor morality. Let alone that life-burdening concept of ‘sin’! How happy my cats must be, purring, sleeping, eating, not burdened by ‘guilt, sin or remorse’ (just like the ancient Greeks weren’t, and how wise they were indeed!) and having sexual relations whenever Nature calls them to?
[/quote]

Do you reject Christianity and all theist, or are you asking a rhetorical question?


#5

[quote=Pious Redeemer][snip]I was wondering… why do humans pretend they will have an afterlife - hell, purgatory, heaven or whatever? Why can’t animals, plants, other life forms aspire such an afterlife?
[/quote]

Funny, but I do seem to have heard all this before. The cure for this sort of ‘thinking’, of course, is to get down to some serious study and find out what belief is actually about, as opposed to what you suppose it is about.

Read some intelligent literature on the subject - G. K. Chesterton or C. S. Lewis for example. And then pray for the grace to understand .


#6

I’m sorry about that post of mine. English isn’t my mother tongue, and I have written some things down I really didn’t mean that way and I do regret them - mea culpa, mea maxima culpa! Please forgive my youthful ignorance :frowning:

Yesterday, I looked into my cats eyes, and, well… I love her so much! I was bitter because I will perhaps never meat her after I have died. Except for my family, my cats are my only dictionary life companions.

I read the Bible alot, also ancient Greek and Roman philosophy (I have a master degree in philosophy, and I work at my university now).

I’m really sorry, people! Please regard that post of mine as a ‘lapsus linguae’.


#7

[quote=Pious Redeemer]I read the Bible alot, also ancient Greek and Roman philosophy (I have a master degree in philosophy, and I work at my university now)…
[/quote]

IF the above claim is true you should be VERY familiar with the philosophical, logical and theological bases for faith and a belief in the afterlife. Did you study in your native tongue? Attend lectures? Read the works of any of the philosophers?

[font=Century Gothic]Even with a language barrier I find myself suspicious when a person of your claimed level education poses such a ridiculous question as “aren’t cats more entitled than humans to participate in the afterlife…” I have seen your posts in other threads in which your pose odd questions or make unconventional statements and then apologize for causing offense and misunderstandings citing the language barrier. What gives? Are you that careless or is there something else afoot?[/font]


#8

I’m quite familiar with arguments for the existence of God. I’m also familiar with counter-arguments of these. That is why I believe that God exists, because knowledge isn’t a sound basis for that. Thomas of Aquino tried to do that, reconciling Aristotle with Christianity, but later philosophers have given counter-arguments for his rational proves.

To give a few examples: I’m familiar with Herakleitos and Plato, especially with his Symposion, Apologeia, Politeia, Crito, Phaedo and Lysis. I read Descartes, Hume, Locke, Hobbes, Kant’s “Grundlegung zur Metaphysik der Sitten”, “Kritik der praktischen Vernunft” and “Kritik der reinen Vernunft”.

I studied the works of René Girard, who’s “scapegoat mechanism”, mimetic desire and interpretation of the Gospels I find most intrigueing. His last book “Je vois Satan tomber comme l’ éclair” tells nothing new, but is a very good reading of the Gospels IMHO.

I also read the published works and the ‘Nachlass’ of Friedrich Nietzsche. Martin Heidegger’s “Sein und Zeit” took me a few weeks.

I have no problem reading and understanding English. Writing normally goes quite well too, except it’s not always easy to properly translate a thought into another language.

That post of mine was an emotional one, not a rational one. I realize this.


#9

[quote=Pious Redeemer]I was wondering… why do humans pretend they will have an afterlife - hell, purgatory, heaven or whatever? Why can’t animals, plants, other life forms aspire such an afterlife? Animals, plants etc… don’t kill each other except for a biological need (food, procreation,…), not because of desire (for power, for money, for sexual relationships, etc., in one word, for possessing something). Don’t they deserve the Kingdom of Heaven much more than we humans do? I find this claim of humans far too presumptuous. We are all suffering from ancient Greek hubris, like Prometheus did.
My cat’s don’t need religion, nor morality. Let alone that life-burdening concept of ‘sin’! How happy my cats must be, purring, sleeping, eating, not burdened by ‘guilt, sin or remorse’ (just like the ancient Greeks weren’t, and how wise they were indeed!) and having sexual relations whenever Nature calls them to?
[/quote]

You are correct, animals do not have religion. That is because they do not have spiritual souls. Only people do.

As for presumption, it is God who created the material universe and ordered it as He saw fit. Humans have intellect and will, made in the image of God. Animals do not. So, no, animals do not “deserve” the Kingdom more than people because animals do not have spiritual souls with which to attain heaven.


#10

[quote=Pious Redeemer]Yesterday, I looked into my cats eyes, and, well… I love her so much! I was bitter because I will perhaps never meat her after I have died. Except for my family, my cats are my only dictionary life companions.

[/quote]

I too have a cat that I love very much. I will be very sad when she dies. However, I do not worry about meeting her after I die because I will be meeting GOD after I die. How can any thing, person, or pet compare with that? Union with God is called the Beatific Vision-- the seeing that is bliss. In other words, we will be filled to capacity with God’s love and we will not have the same need of love from people, pets, etc, that we do here on earth.

That is why we will not miss our pets or friends, nor will we relate to our loved ones the same way in heaven as we did on earth. Do not worry, for God knows our heart’s desire before we do and in Heaven we will be perfectly happy.


#11

Thanks for your conmforting words, 1ke. I should have thought about that before I wrote this rather silly thread :thumbsup:


#12

[quote=Pious Redeemer]Thanks for your conmforting words, 1ke. I should have thought about that before I wrote this rather silly thread :thumbsup:
[/quote]

It is not silly at all. We all go through periods where we struggle with the how’s and why’s related to God. Sometimes it is hard to understand why things happen as they do, after all God is infinite and therefore we cannot fully know his mind.


closed #13

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