Humans are not sinners!!


#1

I started this thread because one of the CAF poster claim that human beings are not sinners. His name is GregoryPalamas, and his profile state he is of the Eastern Catholic Rite.

I don’t know where he came up with the idea that humans are not sinners, but in the Bible all of humans are sinners and that God send his son, Jesus Christ to save his people from there sins.

I highly encourage Catholics and Non-Catholics to post their opinions regarding this subject.


#2

10 And whosoever shall keep the whole law, but offend in one point, is become guilty of all.

28 So you also outwardly indeed appear to men just; but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Slam Dunk on this one


#3

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, - (Romans 3:23)

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. - (1 John 1:8)

Yep, slam dunk.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have mercy on me, a sinner!

Paul


#4

I’m a sinner and totally dependent on God’s mercy. For without God, I am nothing.

I would like to live a sinless life, but due to original sin, I have tempted to sin and break God’s law. I have to pray to strength my faith, and to fight the temptations. If I do, sin, I must confess my sins, repent, just as the Catholic Church provided me.


#5

If we are not Sinner, we don’t even need God, then Jesus won’t die for us!!! I AM A SINNER , A TERRIBLE ONE…so need Jesus to help and help me!!!


#6

You guys are sooo naive. This is so basic.
They do not accept Original Sin.
Your comments here are opening a pandora’s box in regard to MARY and more.
Put on your theological thinking cap and wake up.
This is an invitation to a debate you do not want to start here.
I can tell from the postings here you are all going to get slammed big time from the EO schismatic posters here.

Have fun!

Next time be prepared before you take on Gregory p. he can run you around in circles.

Cheers!:slight_smile:


#7

Like we haven’t been through these debates 1000 times before
The Christadelphian belief system was founded by John Thomas about the year 1848. He was an English physician who immigrated from England to the United States. Originally a Congregationalist, he joined the Campbellite movement in the United States, known as the “Disciples of Christ,” and soon broke away from their ranks when he was accused of holding to strange doctrines

FALSE PROPHECY #1
Equating the year 1864 with the demise of the Holy Roman Empire [Catholic Church], John Thomas equates that time with the coming of Jesus Christ to set up His kingdom on the earth. The Catholic church has more power and influence today, Jesus Christ has not returned and the kingdom has not been established. John Thomas spoke a false prophecy and proved himself a false prophet.

FALSE PROPHECY #2
The resurrection noted in Daniel is at the return of Jesus Christ, prophesied in Daniel 9:24-27, 12:11-12, and directly precedes the return of Jesus Christ, John 5:28-29. John Thomas was specifically stating that the return of Jesus Christ was to occur “about 1866, when the 1335 years terminate…” Since Jesus Christ did not return in 1866 or any year at or “about 1866,” and has not returned in the approximately 136 years since that time, then John Thomas is revealed to be a false prophet. No explanations or excuses can change what he wrote and claimed. John Thomas spoke a false prophecy and proved himself a false prophet.

FOUNDING circa. 1848 by Dr. John Thomas
BASIC AUTHORITY Claim the Bible as their only authority
MINISTRIES Each group independent

JESUS CHRIST

JESUS CHRIST DID NOT PREEXIST BEFORE HIS INCARNATION THROUGH HIS BIRTH BY MARY.
JESUS CHRIST IS NOT GOD INCARNATE IN THE FLESH, IS NOT DEITY AND IS NOT PART OF A TRINITY
JESUS CHRIST HAD A SIN NATURE
JESUS CHRIST HAD TO SAVE HIMSELF.

GOD

THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD WHO IS ONE PERSON AND NOT A TRINITY.

HOLY SPIRIT

THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT A PERSON BUT ONLY THE POWER AND EMANATION FROM GOD.

ATONEMENT

DENY THE SUBSTITUTIONARY ATONEMENT OF JESUS CHRIST

MAN

DENY THE EXISTENCE OF AN ETERNAL SOUL.
DENY THAT MAN EXISTS AFTER DEATH

SATANIC WORLD

DENY THAT SATAN IS A REAL BEING
DENY THE EXISTENCE OF A LITERAL AND REAL HELL.
DENY THAT THERE IS ETERNAL PUNISHMENT AFTER DEATH


#8

You must stay on the same subject for each thread. If Gregory wishes to discuss Mary then he is certainly allowed to, on a different thread. To participate on this thread he has to discuss why he believes that humans are not sinners and where he gets that belief. He can’t jump subjects on an individual thread.

We have many intelligent posters both Catholic and non Catholic. I doubt that we have to fear Gregory.:slight_smile:


#9

dosdog, you are **way off **the topic. You are doing the doctrinal dance.


#10

How so The whole Theology here is based on SIN - If he wants to debate his Theology bring it on He seem s have declared himself Impeccable


#11

Explain to me how your post deals with sin?:confused:


#12

theology.ie/theologs.htm


#13

I think you need to re-think your position and be more prepared to deal with the obvious theological ramifications of your statement here.

I am not defending Gregory’s position, but you are clearly missing the bigger issues here, and he would NOT be out of bounds to bring up the THEOTOKOS here. Not by a long shot. Nor ST. JOHN THE BAPTIST and a few more…

Think your position over before you start a battle with Gregory.
He will have you for lunch.

Just my humble opinion.:o


#14

This is probably what you dont want, but meh :stuck_out_tongue:

If you believe in Determinism or destiny then you arnt really accountable for your actions just some fleshy puppet for a super being.

If you believe humans are little more than animals who act on impulse, then there is no such thing as sin

If you are like me and believe there is no universal morality, then sin is subjective to the culture


#15

Huh?? :confused: :confused:


#16

Loginus is not a Catholic. You should not be so confused. I am sure he will explain to you what he means by what he said.

His posts are very respectful and I think we should be in kind to him.


#17

Humans have a free will given by God to sin or not. To sin is to break any commandments he has set upon us. Through the sin of Adam, death came into the world.

If you are like me and believe there is no universal morality, then sin is subjective to the culture

I do believe we as humans have a morality duty to not murder, commit abortion, foricate, just as the Bible tell us, and the Moral teachings of the Church. When we sin, we have to repent to restore our union with God.


#18

There seems to be many preconceptions about the Catholic and Orthodox stance on this topic. There also seems to be many assumptions about my position here that are not born out in fact.

I do not have horns. I’m not a schismatic nor a heretic.

For those who have defended me I do appreciate it. Perhaps we can all learn something here.

Let’s set a simple stage.

  1. Were Adam and Eve born sinless and free from sickness and death?

  2. Were they human?

  3. If they were to sin by partaking of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil were they to die? Did they, us, die?

  4. What preserves us now?

Don’t presume you know my answers to these questions. Rather look deeply at the principles of our faith and answer the questions without suspicion or guile if you wish a sensible discussion.

One last question:

  1. Have any of you read the definitive work on Christology and Salvation by St. Athanasius, “The Divine Dilemma and the Incarnation of God”?

CDL


#19

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:


#20

Thank you, sir. I am a teacher and I discern that you may be as well. I often approach subjects in ways not usually done. It helps others and for that matter, myself, to understand issues better. I don’t claim to know it all. I’m on the path to martyrdom and sainthood. I’ve a ways to go but I’m on the path.

CDL

BTW The subject might better be stated “Are sinners human?”


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