I am a Protestant who wants an honest answer


#1

I am Protestant. How many of you already “know” that I will not be going to heaven, even though you are not omni-present and you cannot see my heart?
I hope none, but there are bound to be some… I want an honest answer, even though I know I am not going to hell. “How do I know I am not?” do you ask? Well, I do not see the need to explain to you… If you would like me to, please feel free to ask me.
I am not afraid. You are my brothers and sisters in Christ, and you do not want to hurt me, you want the best for me. I have every confidence in you.

God’s Peace~ Lisa


#2

Well this seems like a trap to me. But no I don’t “know” you are going to hell or heaven or maybe spend some time in purgatory. Only God knows. However you don’t “know” without a doubt that you are going to heaven because you are not God I am assuming. I was a Protestant at one time also and I thought I “knew” I was going to heaven but inside I had a deep emptiness. That emptiness is now complete with the Holy Spirit leading me to the fullness of the Catholic Church.


#3

[quote=nucatholic] However you don’t “know” without a doubt that you are going to heaven because you are not God I am assuming.
[/quote]

So no one can “know without a doubt” that he/she is going to heaven? I hope you don’t believe that. I hope you know you are going to heaven.

God’s Peace~ Lisa


#4

I have hope that I will, but not to the point that I am 100% sure. Thats why we “work out our salvation with fear and trembling.”


#5

[quote=JesusFreak16]I am Protestant. How many of you already “know” that I will not be going to heaven, even though you are not omni-present and you cannot see my heart?
[/quote]

I hope and pray that you will receive from God judgement to Heaven at the end of your life on earth.

No human person can determine if you or any other living person will “for sure” go to Heaven or “for sure” go to Hell when he/she dies, not even the Pope or all the Catholic bishops throughout the world assembled together in council.

Now the Church can make a definitive judgment that someone who has died in the past is “now” in Heaven and so is a “Saint” – take for example Mother Teresa who died several years ago: the Pope recently declared, based on the evidence (miracles, testimony of those who knew her, etc.) that she is “for sure” in Heaven and can pray for us there. Now she is known as Blessed Teresa of Calcutta, and the Church celebrates her birthday in Heaven on September 5th.

Note well, the Church cannot and does not make similar judgments to the effect that someone who has died in the past is “now” in Hell.

On the other hand, the Church does teach us all about the possibility of us Christians, justified and sanctified, committing grave sins that “crush” God’s grace, our share in His divine life, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, out of our souls. Based on the teaching of the Church you could yourself realize that you have become separated from God by your own serious sins and are in need of reconciliation with Him.

If so, then sincerely repent of those sins and turn to God asking for mercy and the grace and strength to be reunited to Him and to not commit such sins in the future. The best context in which to do this is the Sacrament of Reconciliation (also known as Confession) in the Catholic Church – because that is the means that Christ Himself established for the ministry of the forgiveness of sins.

The constant teaching of the Catholic Church:

If you die “in a state of grace” you will go to Heaven; if not, you will be judged to Hell by God for all eternity.

A good Catholic spiritual director and/or confessor can help you to put together a winning spiritual game plan that will enable you to have moral assurance that you are in a state of grace, and that will assist you to remain in a state of grace.

Does that help at all?

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.


#6

[quote=JesusFreak16]So no one can “know without a doubt” that he/she is going to heaven? I hope you don’t believe that. I hope you know you are going to heaven.

God’s Peace~ Lisa
[/quote]

Saint Paul tells us we must work out our salvation in fear and trembling. So it seems one of the greatest Christians of all time was not as sure of his salvation as you are.


#7

[quote=JesusFreak16]I am Protestant. How many of you already “know” that I will not be going to heaven, even though you are not omni-present and you cannot see my heart?
I hope none, but there are bound to be some… I want an honest answer, even though I know I am not going to hell. “How do I know I am not?” do you ask? Well, I do not see the need to explain to you… If you would like me to, please feel free to ask me.
I am not afraid. You are my brothers and sisters in Christ, and you do not want to hurt me, you want the best for me. I have every confidence in you.

God’s Peace~ Lisa
[/quote]

No one knows whether you will go to Heaven except God, not even you know for sure since you do not know everything. You can only hope that you are going to be saved.


#8

“Are you saved?” asks the Fundamentalist. The Catholic should reply: “As the
Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5-8), but I’m also being
saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be
saved (Rom. 5:9-10, 1 Cor. 3:12-15).” “I am redeemed,” answers the Catholic,
“and like the Apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling
(Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2,
2 Tim. 2:11-13)–but not with a false “absolute” assurance about my own
ability to persevere (2 Cor. 13:5). And I do all this as the Catholic Church has
taught, unchanged, from the time of Christ.”

cin.org/archives/cinapol/199804/0183.html (very bottom)

And only God knows each person’s state…


#9

[quote=nucatholic]I have hope that I will, but not to the point that I am 100% sure. Thats why we “work out our salvation with fear and trembling.”
[/quote]

So it sounds like you turned to a church organization rather than Christ Himself to “fill your emptyness.” Christ is not the Church and the Church is not Christ. It is Christ Himself who gives eternal life, not any church. And the only life He gives to any sinner who comes to Him by faith is “eternal.” “Everlasting life” in Him (Jn. 3:14-18).

The passage you quote above is about working “outwardly” the salvation you already HAVE “inwardly.” To work “out” one’s salvation is not the same as working “for” one’s salvation. What you state above is essentially “for” your salvation and is erroneous. That’s why you think you cannot know if you’re saved (besides your church telling you that). But the BIBLICAL message, not Roman Catholic or Protestant, is very explicit. The true believer can know without a doubt that he/she IS forever saved through personal faith in Jesus Christ (Jn. 20:31; 1 Jn. 5:13; Rom. 5:1-2). To say differently is a different gospel. “Gospel” means “good news.”


#10

No one ever said that the Church is Christ.

The Church is the Bride and Christ is the Bridegroom.

“… for Christ so loved the Church that he gave Himself up for her.”

“… and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

“*”

“To love Christ is to love the Church and to love her like He does.”

hehe… to use the same style…*


#11

Christ is the head of the church and all the members are the Body of Christ. We cannot exist without Christ…as a body cannot exist without a head. But we are his hands and his feet here on earth, working among all of his members.

Just as a branch cannot exist without a vine…Jesus is the vine, we are the branches. A broken branch cannot exist without the vine.

You already realize that. Come on home! You are always welcome, Just knock and the door will be opened.


#12

[quote=JGC]“Are you saved?” asks the Fundamentalist. The Catholic should reply: “As the
Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5-8), but I’m also being
saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be
saved (Rom. 5:9-10, 1 Cor. 3:12-15).” “I am redeemed,” answers the Catholic,
“and like the Apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling
(Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2,
2 Tim. 2:11-13)–but not with a false “absolute” assurance about my own
ability to persevere (2 Cor. 13:5). And I do all this as the Catholic Church has
taught, unchanged, from the time of Christ.”

cin.org/archives/cinapol/199804/0183.html (very bottom)

And only God knows each person’s state…
[/quote]

This is a TOTAL distortion of the Biblical message regarding salvation. What Christ did on our behalf on the cross He did completely and perfectly, and the sinner who believes in Him is, by that complete, perfect, and “*once for all *” sacrifice, completely and perfectly forgiven of ALL sins, and completely and perfectly saved forever. God is not yes and no at the same time, by yes, yes because of Christ.

“Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith in this grace in which we stand” (Rom. 5:1-2).

The sinner who, by faith, looks to the risen Christ, is the same as the Israelite who, though bitten, by faith looked to the bronze serpent lifted up in the wilderness and lived (Jn. 3:14-18; cf. Num. 21).

A true believer, according to God’s Word and Christ’s historical sacrifice on our behalf, can know without a doubt that he/she is forever saved. Because salvation is ALL of Christ, none of us. What a GREAT distortion of the Gospel (good news) message to say otherwise!!


#13

Know that you are forever saved? Not unless you’re into divination, then of course, you definitely are not saved.

Know that you are currently in a state of Grace? Yes.


#14

[quote=Ozzie]This is a TOTAL distortion of the Biblical message regarding salvation. What Christ did on our behalf on the cross He did completely and perfectly, and the sinner who believes in Him is, by that complete, perfect, and “*once for all *” sacrifice, completely and perfectly forgiven of ALL sins, and completely and perfectly saved forever. God is not yes and no at the same time, by yes, yes because of Christ.

“Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith in this grace in which we stand” (Rom. 5:1-2).

The sinner who, by faith, looks to the risen Christ, is the same as the Israelite who, though bitten, by faith looked to the bronze serpent lifted up in the wilderness and lived (Jn. 3:14-18; cf. Num. 21).

A true believer, according to God’s Word and Christ’s historical sacrifice on our behalf, can know without a doubt that he/she is forever saved. Because salvation is ALL of Christ, none of us. What a GREAT distortion of the Gospel (good news) message to say otherwise!!
[/quote]

Simply put, Catholics put the hope of their salvation in Jesus Christ, Our separated brethren have a new belief that often puts their hope of salvation in their belief. Luther needed to adapt this thinking due to his obsession with sin - hence he was a dung heap only covered with snow. Catholic thought (which most Catholics have not been taught) teaches the true regeneration of baptism, and the true reconciliation of confession.

We both desire the same thing…eternity in heaven. But The Church makes available all that Christ has given it. Only the Catholic Church has the full deposit of Faith. We believe we are saved only by Grace, through Faith, working in Love.

MrS


#15

[quote=Ozzie]This is a TOTAL distortion of the Biblical message regarding salvation. What Christ did on our behalf on the cross He did completely and perfectly, and the sinner who believes in Him is, by that complete, perfect, and “*once for all *” sacrifice, completely and perfectly forgiven of ALL sins, and completely and perfectly saved forever. God is not yes and no at the same time, by yes, yes because of Christ.

“Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith in this grace in which we stand” (Rom. 5:1-2).

The sinner who, by faith, looks to the risen Christ, is the same as the Israelite who, though bitten, by faith looked to the bronze serpent lifted up in the wilderness and lived (Jn. 3:14-18; cf. Num. 21).

A true believer, according to God’s Word and Christ’s historical sacrifice on our behalf, can know without a doubt that he/she is forever saved. Because salvation is ALL of Christ, none of us. What a GREAT distortion of the Gospel (good news) message to say otherwise!!
[/quote]

You’re saying that God decided Man’s messed things up so bad that He regretted giving him *free will * and decided, by His Son’s sacrifice, to take away that free will, so Man can choose nothing after – allegedly – “being saved” to ultimately reject God’s graces. hmm… My head hurts. :rolleyes: why are we in this world after all, then?


#16

[quote=Ozzie]This is a TOTAL distortion of the Biblical message regarding salvation. What Christ did on our behalf on the cross He did completely and perfectly, and the sinner who believes in Him is, by that complete, perfect, and “*once for all *” sacrifice, completely and perfectly forgiven of ALL sins, and completely and perfectly saved forever. God is not yes and no at the same time, by yes, yes because of Christ.

“Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith in this grace in which we stand” (Rom. 5:1-2).

The sinner who, by faith, looks to the risen Christ, is the same as the Israelite who, though bitten, by faith looked to the bronze serpent lifted up in the wilderness and lived (Jn. 3:14-18; cf. Num. 21).

A true believer, according to God’s Word and Christ’s historical sacrifice on our behalf, can know without a doubt that he/she is forever saved. Because salvation is ALL of Christ, none of us. What a GREAT distortion of the Gospel (good news) message to say otherwise!!
[/quote]

You may be interested in these…
elca.org/ea/Ecumenical/romancatholic/jddj/common.html

cin.org/users/james/files/jddj.htm

americancatholic.org/Messenger/Jun2000/feature2.asp


#17

I find this extremely odd.

No one can know the mind of God. Once we have come through the enthusiasm of giving our whole selves: heart and soul to Our Lord, we still have the reponsibility of living out that Faith.

What is metanoia anyway? What is repentence? It is to follow a new course, to turn in a new direction. We in our own imperfect way will undertake this task come what may. When we fall, we’ll get up again and again with the help of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Mysteries and the communion of Saints to seek the Face of God.


#18

Hi Lisa,

[quote=JesusFreak16]I want an honest answer, even though I know I am not going to hell. “How do I know I am not?” do you ask? Well, I do not see the need to explain to you… If you would like me to, please feel free to ask me.

[/quote]

There is a very simple answers to this:

First of all, to the best of my knowledge, the Catholic Church does not teach that you, a non-Catholic, can not go to heaven. In fact some Protestants may be more serious about their faith than Catholics. However, we believe that the fullness of the apostolic Christian faith and practice are in the Catholic family.

Secondly, we have free will and we can choose to reject Jesus and reject our salvation and our faith. Now, Christians may doubt they will ever do this, but one can never be sure.

Thirdly, the Catholic Church teaches that it is presumption to conclude that you know you will go to heaven. We all face God’s judgement at the end of our lives. If we knew we were going to heaven, then there would ne no need for God to judge us. Our finale destiny is not sealed until the end of our earthly lives.

[quote=JesusFreak16]You are my brothers and sisters in Christ, and you do not want to hurt me, you want the best for me. I have every confidence in you.
[/quote]

Yes, you are 100% correct. We want the best for you. Trust us, you will learn much. I do not lie, we have much to teach you that will surprise you and show you the splendor of the truth. All is God-willing and by His grace of course. The promises of the Catholic faith will not leave you empty because these are the promises of Jesus.

Greg


#19

[quote=Greg_McPherran]We all face God’s judgement at the end of our lives. If we knew we were going to heaven, then there would ne no need for God to judge us. Our final destiny is not sealed until the end of our earthly lives.
[/quote]

Interesting point about the last judgment. Is its purpose only to ratify what we have already decided about ourselves? What then do we make of Jesus description of the last judgment in Matthew 25:31ff? Do we take this gospel description seriously?


#20

[quote=MariaG]Know that you are forever saved? Not unless you’re into divination, then of course, you definitely are not saved.

Know that you are currently in a state of Grace? Yes.
[/quote]

Hey I am not really hip to Catholic jargon… What
exactly is divination? Current state of Grace? Thanks, MariaG.

God’s Peace~ Lisa


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