I am a supporter of the movement "pro-life" and at the same time I am a supporter of the EU, but I noticed that most of the pro-life is anti-EU

Why is pro-life always associated with extreme nationalism and resistance to a United Europe?
Why do proponents of the movement for life have to be xenophobes? ultra nationalists? and racists? I think that this is a stereotype.

1 Like

Most pro-life people are oppossed to the EU because they are radically pro-abortion.

In order to get aid from them, you pretty much have to sign away your nation’s soul and agree to elective abortion, homosexual “marriages,” and all kinds of other worldly evils.

It’s not the concept of the union itself that we reject, it’s how that concept has become manifest.

13 Likes

This. The EU is grossly immoral- the fact that they believe in abortion on demand should be enough to understand why those who call ourselves pro-life are opposed to it.

8 Likes

That’s a pretty big assumption to say that people who oppose the EU are xenophobes, racist, etc. How about actually talking to some people who oppose the EU?

10 Likes

Probably for the same reason that being pro-life in the United States, for all practical purposes, is associated with supporting a party that opposes universal health care, free or affordable higher education without taking on crippling unsecured debt, a living minimum wage, and so on.

Unfortunately, I am not an EU citizen, nor do I live in Europe, but I do “have a dog in the fight” as my son is an EU citizen and we are going to obtain certification of this fact once he turns 16. EU citizenship confers many benefits and very few, if any, drawbacks.

5 Likes

How about you support what you support and not label yourself or align yourself with groups?

That way, you will not be thrown in with groups of people that support things you don’t.

3 Likes

This is not the case. The EU explicitly states that these are issues for individual countries to decide upon.

There was a long thread on this not too long ago. I’ll see if I can find it.

Edit - here: Europe must rediscover 'its own identity, its own unity', says Pope Francis

5 Likes

I think what you meant to say was that we:

  • Reject direct government involvement in, and paying for, healthcare expenses, as that almost invariably causes prices to rise in much the same way the actual existence of healthcare insurance has cause healthcare prices to skyrocket.

  • We believe the government has no business providing money for school, especially because, as noted with the previous example, when the government got involved prices began to skyrocket. “Free” schooling won’t solve anything because it will just cost taxpayers trillions of dollars while producing a glut of graduates in fields where they can’t find work. What we DO support is subsidies for trade schools and other professional development in fields we actually need.

  • Hoping for a single living minimum wage is misguided because it implies that a single wage level is sufficient for all people. A high school student does not need to be making the same amount of money as a single mother of two. There is also a disparity in the skills required for a job which should be considered.

6 Likes

And yet I continue to heard from people living in these countries who are experience these things in person, and seeing their effects.

What’s on the books and what’s actually put into practice are rarely the same thing.

If you’re right, great. I still have other issues with the EU, but it would be nice to know that need not be one of them.

2 Likes

Thank you for the clarification, I was speaking in broad general terms which, obviously, can be further fleshed out with the reasons for such opposition.

Health care: in no other advanced Western democracy does a person face financial ruin due to a medical crisis. ACA has made insurance affordable for many, and that is a good thing. Perhaps that is all we need. Perhaps it doesn’t go far enough, and single-payer would be better. People can legitimately disagree on the fine points.

Education: no one thinks Harvard should be free for all comers who qualify. Admittance to European universities is highly competitive, due in part to the low cost and the sheer number of qualified students who would like to attend them. I refer more to the state and community college systems. Educational costs are through the roof, and students without means to afford it have to take on massive student debt that normally cannot be discharged even by bankruptcy — only death. It’s essentially indentured servitude. There has to be a better way.

Minimum wage: I would advocate some kind of “junior wage”, let’s say, for people below a certain age, who work at fast food, retail, and so on. In a Catholic society animated by traditional teachings on social justice, another factor would be the number of minor children who are dependent upon the breadwinner.

Faithful Catholics can and do legitimately disagree on social policies, and the extent to which the government and other public institutions should intervene in the private sector and in the individual lives of people. There is a “principle of subsidiary” to be followed, in which problems are best addressed at the most basic possible level, however, people can also disagree as to which level best addresses these problems.

I personally know only two people who were helped by ACA. Every other person I know has been harmed by it. As for single payer, you are right, we can disagree. I believe having the government regulating heath care is, simply put, one of the worst ideas in the long sad history of bad ideas.

This is because of government involvement, not in spite of it. Put government assistance and college costs side by side on a chart. Every time the government increased school funding and financial aid, costs went up. We need to go back tot he government staying out of it.

I could agree with this. However, I also believe that increase in minimum wage only results in a loss of jobs and/or increase in the cost of services, thereby negating the effectiveness of the wage increase.

I agree completely. I just took great issue with your mischaracterization of conservative stances.

6 Likes

Utter tosh! Northern Ireland are a prime example.

1 Like

Malta an even better one:

I don’t know how many times I have found myself having to restate the fact on CAF that in the EU, abortion law and all life issues are within the preserve of member states’ competence.

3 Likes

I know of no EU policy on abortion .

Each country in the EU makes its own abortion laws .

3 Likes

You can be pro life and also use your prudential judgement about whether nations can enter into treaties with other nations.

1 Like

As a citizen of an area that is trying out the $15/hr minimum wage, can give some testimony to this. I am not actually living in the area, but nearby. The area that tried it lost jobs big-time. All the minimum wage jobs are being replaced by ordering kiosks and high-tech vending machines. Costs still skyrocketed so business is down as well. As customers fled out into the surrounding area, companies noticed the efficiency of self-checkouts, kiosks, and machines and have adopted them as well. Getting a minimum wage job is getting impossible.

Raising minimum wage may be a solution, but in my area at least, it’s been a disaster for those who need those jobs as they are now completely unemployed.

4 Likes

All I’m seeing is a lot of people who don’t understand what the European Union actually is.

4 Likes

I really have a problem with all kinds of labels.
When it comes to politics, I am liberal about some issues and conservative about others. Call me an independent, because I will not tow the party like for the Republicans or the Democrats.
Politicians want to divide us for their own agenda, which usually is not great for the country overall.

Jobs that pay low wages are not worth saving.

Ask a person with no job at all and bills to pay if a low wage one is “worth saving”. Also, what do you consider “low”?

5 Likes
DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.