I am new here, here is my Challenge


#1

Hi, I am new here, here is a little about me.

I must say that I was raised Catholic, baptized, communion, confirmed, Catholic youth group, Catholic school, alter server, etc. However, I didn’t understand the meaning of everything because partly I thought everyone was Catholic until I got older. I always laughed at my mom because she was so devoted and called her crazy, but this has all changed.

I met this AMAZING woman who I want to call my wife some day. I live in Toronto and she lives in Montreal. She is a Protestant (born-again christian) and so is her family. Her parents were both Catholics but now are Protestant, so obviously the influence is there. I have been challenged by her mother mostly but some things that she says are totally inaccurate (i.e. Virgin Mary being a sinner, having other children, etc) and also she likes to think that the Sacraments are just symbols, to rejecting infant baptism and The Real Presence in the Eucharist, Worshipping Mary as Deity, and so on and so on.

This is why I am here. I have read Dave Armstrongs Bibilical evidence for Catholicism and it’s companion, reading currently Karl Keatings Catholicism & Fundamentalism, and have the Footprints of God videos as well as Scott Hahn’s book Hail Holy Queen which I have not yet begun and won’t until I finish Karl Keatings book. I have come to know more in the last 7 months then I coul have ever imagined and I truly thank God for bring these people into my life so that I can see clearly now what is the truth. I want my kids to be raised Catholic and I want them to grow up in the Catholic faith, in Catholic School, going to a Catholic Church because only there is more bible read than anywhere else and the main event is not the guest speaker but the Eucharist.

I have invited them both to this forum, I don’t know if they will come, though I hope so. Not to convert them as I know they truly love Jesus (otherwise I wouldn’t be dating this girl) but I do feel as though my girlfriend has been misguided (though that is entirely a matter of opinion) with a lot of misunderstanding and misinformation about the Catholic faith. She tells me that she has studied apologetics yet I hear the same common errors coming from her, she knows nothing about what the Early Fathers believed, has no idea of the concept of Apostolic Succession, etc. This is not her fault of course, however I do want her to make this a priority to read and learn, so she will understand fully why I feel so strongly about my faith and raising the kids in my faith, thus why I have invited her here to ask questions and also want her to read the books that I am reading since I stink at explaining it even though I understand everything.

I just hope that people treat them with compassion if they do come here, they are awesome people. Thanks for reading this.


#2

Blessings Leaf,

I am sure this girl is a wonderful person as well as her family. You haven’t really asked for advice but…Please think very seriously before marrying this non-Catholic. They don’t view marriage as a sacrament. If you look at my “Prayer Request” in the Spiritual Forum for my friend in Texas you will see what happened to him after 20 years of marriage.

I will pray that the Holy Spirit be with you and provide guidance to you.

The Catholic Faith is AWESOME. How can you stand it wheh they insult Mary and the Holy Eucharist?

Again, Blessings to you through Jesus Christ,
Shannon from PA


#3

hey, I really appreciate the advice. Obviously I am taking things very seriously which is why I delved into all this reading and studying to begin with. She doesn’t hate Mary or the Saints for that matter, however she has been brought up that praying to them is taking the glory away from God.

I don’t hate her for that as there is nothing wrong with “going directly to God” but I feel she is really missing out when using such a false and unneccessary dichotomy.

She is gaining a greater appreciation for the Sacraments as she thinks they are beautiful. I don’t think she totally understands the significance of them though. We have “preliminarily agreed” on compromise of raising the kids with the sacraments in the Catholic Church, however not teaching them to “pray” to Mary and the Saints.

I guess this is our way to compromise, I have asked her that this is on condition that she remains open to learning more, and at this point, I can only hope that the Holy Spirit will guide her to truth. I truly feel like she is the girl for me thus why I am making this effort. In no way am I chaning what I believe however, let me make that clear, I fully submit to the teachings of our church.


#4

Please visit my posting on my friend in Texas and say a prayer for him.

A priest told me that the Catholic Church IS MARY. Mary is the Arc of the New Testament. Why would you raise your children not to pray to Mary?

Also, think of how beautiful it would be to be able to attend Mass, have family rosary, receive sacraments as a family.

Blessings,
Shannon


#5

[quote=go Leafs go]I just hope that people treat them with compassion if they do come here, they are awesome people. Thanks for reading this.
[/quote]

Well, as long as you don’t consider fervent, passionate, explanations of the faith as uncompassionate, I don’t think you’ll have a problem with most of the people on this forum. There may, of couse, be exceptions but personal attacks are not allowed according to the forum rules.


#6

[quote=go Leafs go]I have been challenged by her mother mostly but some things that she says are totally inaccurate (i.e. Virgin Mary being a sinner, having other children, etc) and also she likes to think that the Sacraments are just symbols, to rejecting infant baptism and The Real Presence in the Eucharist, Worshipping Mary as Deity, and so on and so on.
[/quote]

Hi Leaf, Welcome!

Just to clarify, you’re saying that she THINKS Catholics worship Mary as a deity—you’re not saying Mary is a diety, right? According to Catholic doctring, Mary was fully human and was simply saved in an unsual manner so she could be set apart for her very special task.


#7

To the Mutant, I say “AMEN”. I personally shy away from people who don’t realize the Power and Glory of my Blessed Mother.
Shannin


#8

go Leafs go, Welcome, I highly recommend Scott Hahn’s book HAIL HOLY QUEEN, read it as soon as possible.

Also, you may want to hear Rosiland Moss’ talk on Mary Listen

I wish to give you some advise, :slight_smile: Keep up what you are doing, iron things out now, so you can start your marriage in unity, a house devided can not stand.

God Bless, Joao


#9

[quote=petra]Hi Leaf, Welcome!

Just to clarify, you’re saying that she THINKS Catholics worship Mary as a deity—you’re not saying Mary is a diety, right? According to Catholic doctring, Mary was fully human and was simply saved in an unsual manner so she could be set apart for her very special task.
[/quote]

No, I totally disagree with that.


#10

[quote=theMutant]Well, as long as you don’t consider fervent, passionate, explanations of the faith as uncompassionate, I don’t think you’ll have a problem with most of the people on this forum. There may, of couse, be exceptions but personal attacks are not allowed according to the forum rules.
[/quote]

Of course, I think that someone should always stand up to their beliefs, if they need to research them, so be it. As long as the respect is there, as I love these people however much I disagree with their beliefs. I feel they need to be educated rather than shunned as I feel as they are just being honest to what they have been led to believe and that we have to pray that they will see the light, even though they think they already do.


#11

I also recommend Scott Hahn’s book Hail Holy Queen.

Also try reading Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth. You can find it at the main site, Catholic.com.

If you can prove the basis of the Catholic church, the rest should follow. Remember, we are a faith that believes in sola Verbum Dei or only the Word of God… ask yourself, how is the Word of God conveyed? Is it only through the Bible? See, our Protestant brethren cannot see complete truth because they only rely on half of the truth and that’s the Bible… Hence the need to pray for them. We, on the other hand, have the Bible, Tradition and the Magisterium.


#12

Just one more post… about Mother Mary… See, to understand our Mother, we must understand a lot of concepts… One of which is her Queenship… Read 1 Kings 2 and you might get the idea why we pray to Mary. The Davidic Kingdom is God’s model of his Heavenly Kingdom. I hope it helps.


#13

…I do feel as though my girlfriend has been misguided (though that is entirely a matter of opinion) with a lot of misunderstanding and misinformation about the Catholic faith. She tells me that she has studied apologetics yet I hear the same common errors coming from her, she knows nothing about what the Early Fathers believed, has no idea of the concept of Apostolic Succession, etc. This is not her fault of course, however I do want her to make this a priority to read and learn, so she will understand fully why I feel so strongly about my faith and raising the kids in my faith…

Hi, Leafs. Do you think your girlfriend would be amenable to attending RCIA? Attendance would not mean she is obligated to convert, but it might just set her on the road to understanding what it is that you hold so dear, and why you do. Just a thought. At the very least, it would give her an insight into your beliefs and the passion you seem to have for the Church.
Have a great day!
Judy


#14

I think you are being a bit naive here. How can you honestly say you are going to commit to raising your children as Catholics and yet withold certain parts of Church teaching/practices from them? Don’t you think that is a bit dishonest?

Intercessory prayer is a pretty big (and important) part of Church teaching/practice. What are you going to tell your kids when they see others doing this or talking about it? Are you going to tell them it’s wrong? If you tell them it’s ok but we don’t do that…isn’t that going to cause some confusion and doubt?

SV


#15

[quote=juno24]Hi, Leafs. Do you think your girlfriend would be amenable to attending RCIA? Attendance would not mean she is obligated to convert, but it might just set her on the road to understanding what it is that you hold so dear, and why you do. Just a thought. At the very least, it would give her an insight into your beliefs and the passion you seem to have for the Church.
Have a great day!
Judy
[/quote]

Thanks Judy, I just asked in another forum if that was possible actually. I don’t know if she would, but I would sure hope so. It’s something I’ll consider, that’s for sure. My fear I think is are RCIA directors aware of these questions that are raised about the faith from Fundamentalists/Protestants/etc and are they ready to counter these when pressed? I’ve never attended RCIA so excuse my ignorance.


#16

Leafs,

I am concerned for you with the compromising. The children if they go to Catholic school will certainly be required to pray the Hail Mary and pray to saints and speak well about both. You are setting up some problems here. Also what other Catholic beliefs are you willing to compromise on in marriage-artificial birth control perhaps? How about not going to Mass on some Sundays so you can go to her church? How about all the other days of obligation? You are really not going to teach your children to pray for their deceased relatives in purgatory? See where I am going here… You are doing the right thing to explore this now. Some unequally yoked marriages work out fine. Most end up with non catholic children or those who don’t practice any faith at all.The majority of these type of marriages often end with the catholic spouse falling away as well. The only ‘mixed’ marriages that I know that work well usually involve protestant spouses that whole heartedly support the Catholic teaching for their children.
God Bless on your discernment.


#17

[quote=Seatuck]Leafs,

I am concerned for you with the compromising. The children if they go to Catholic school will certainly be required to pray the Hail Mary and pray to saints and speak well about both. You are setting up some problems here. Also what other Catholic beliefs are you willing to compromise on in marriage-artificial birth control perhaps? How about not going to Mass on some Sundays so you can go to her church? How about all the other days of obligation? You are really not going to teach your children to pray for their deceased relatives in purgatory? See where I am going here… You are doing the right thing to explore this now. Some unequally yoked marriages work out fine. Most end up with non catholic children or those who don’t practice any faith at all.The majority of these type of marriages often end with the catholic spouse falling away as well. The only ‘mixed’ marriages that I know that work well usually involve protestant spouses that whole heartedly support the Catholic teaching for their children.
God Bless on your discernment.
[/quote]

wow, thanks for that. I guess I am just not sure as I believe in all of that. I am not worried about falling away, I am too strong in my faith. I pray that the Holy Spirit will guide me, that’s why I’m here I guess, and why I’m hoping she will join the forum too as there are many of you out there whom I acknowledge can help, and with compassion.


#18

[quote=go Leafs go]wow, thanks for that. I guess I am just not sure as I believe in all of that. I am not worried about falling away, I am too strong in my faith. I pray that the Holy Spirit will guide me, that’s why I’m here I guess, and why I’m hoping she will join the forum too as there are many of you out there whom I acknowledge can help, and with compassion.
[/quote]

Leaf re-read what you posted …you said you are strong in your faith yet you aren’t sure you blieve in ‘all that’…I think you really need to figure out what you believe, before you try to convert your girlfriend. You don’t want to confuse her before you even get started! :slight_smile:

Big issues in marriage (Catholic married to a non-Catholic) generally involve children (what faith to raise them in), and birth control (you are aware of the Church’s teaching on this right?)

SV


#19

[quote=St Veronica]Leaf re-read what you posted …you said you are strong in your faith yet you aren’t sure you blieve in ‘all that’…I think you really need to figure out what you believe, before you try to convert your girlfriend. You don’t want to confuse her before you even get started! :slight_smile:

Big issues in marriage (Catholic married to a non-Catholic) generally involve children (what faith to raise them in), and birth control (you are aware of the Church’s teaching on this right?)

SV
[/quote]

no no, I believe in all that, wrote it wrong, just not sure what to do, lol, sorry. I think the books I have read, this forum, then maybe if she agree’s,the RCIA. This will all happen before I take the relationship any further.


#20

Hey Leaf, Peace be with you!

I would like to offer a story of hope to you … I am a recent convert to the faith, confirmed Easter of 2003. When I first met the woman that is now my Fiancé, I wasn’t even attending church and the Catholic faith was the farthest thing from my mind. Yet as I grew to love this woman I felt within me to the desire to love all of her and a big part of her life was her Catholic faith. It started out at first with me wanting to attend mass with her occasionally and then it became part of my routine. At first I just sat quietly observing, not taking part in the kneeling and recitation of prayers. As time progressed I opened myself up to many of the prayers and I began to recite the Creed, while omitting the “I believe in the Holy Catholic Church and the communion of Saints,” parts because I did believe the bulk of creed. Well, it wasn’t long before I began to open my heart to the beauty and truth that is our faith, and although I struggled with the presence of the Eucharist, when I prayerfully accepted the truth of Christ’s presence a hunger developed within me. It took over two and a half years before I was baptized because I had a lot of personal obstacles to climb over, but through God’s grace I am now at home in the Church he has called me too.

The most beautiful part of my conversion is that my girlfriend, now fiancé, never once forced me and rarely even invited me to attend mass. I followed her and developed a hunger for the truth because I saw in her a peace and love for God that I wanted to know more of. In hindsight, she has revealed to me that she did a lot of praying to facilitate my conversion. When I struggled with a lot of my doubts and troubles she humbly confessed that she didn’t even know all the answers and she rarely ever tried to prove anything to me. The truth made itself known because in all simplicity, it is the truth.

I guess what I am trying to tell you Leaf, is that if you put your faith above all things God’s grace will bless you and clear the way for the path that you and your future wife must follow. See Lk.17:6. Live as example to your girlfriend and love God above all things, Mt. 5:14


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