I am outraged!!!


#1

How can THIS be tolerated???

indcatholicnews.com/listing.html

London: Mass for gay Catholics with their families and friends
Sunday 2 January 5pm

At St Anne’s Church 55 Dean Street, London W1D 6AF with Canon Alan Griffiths presiding. All are welcome! Further Information - 020 8986 0807/020 7226 0847

What is happening to this church???
Do these ‘people’ even understand Catholicism???
THIS IS PURE EVIL!!


#2

[quote=watcher]How can THIS be tolerated???

indcatholicnews.com/listing.html

**London: Mass for gay Catholics with their families and friends **
****Sunday 2 January 5pm
At St Anne’s Church 55 Dean Street, London W1D 6AF with Canon Alan Griffiths presiding. All are welcome! Further Information - 020 8986 0807/020 7226 0847

What is happening to this church???
Do these ‘people’ even understand Catholicism???
THIS IS PURE EVIL!!

[/quote]

The blurb gives no details. It may be this is a fully-orthodox attempt to minister to gay people, WITHOUT ‘affirming their lifestyle’. Otherwise, you might try to see if the bishop of the appropriate diocese will reprimand the event. You might also want to confirm this is a ‘Roman Catholic’ event–there are independent, renegade Catholic groups not associated with Roman Catholicism at all which do things like this. (As I understand it, it is questionable whether such groups have valid ‘orders’ in many cases).


#3

A search at google reveals the depths of their depravity!
They promote homosexuality.
They promote those who sympathise with terrorism.
They are anglocatholic, ie NOT CATHOLIC!!!


#4

These ‘people’? Why did you put it like that? They are PEOPLE, yes they are. Of course they are people! :eek:


#5

OK, they are people…but people on a fast-track to HELL!


#6

how fortunate you are to have inside knowledge of who is on the fast track to hell. Even the Catholic church never claimed to know for certain who is in hell, got yer own little source of revelation, eh? newsflash, being homosexual is not a sin, worshipping in the Catholic church in the company of other homosexuals is not a sin. Worshipping in the Catholic church in the company of sinners is not a sin, since we all do every Sunday, as we are all sinners. get a grip.


#7

[quote=watcher]A search at google reveals the depths of their depravity!
They promote homosexuality.
They promote those who sympathise with terrorism.
They are anglocatholic, ie NOT CATHOLIC!!!
[/quote]

It seems that they are Roman Catholic from these articles that I found. What did you find?

I don’t know why some Bishops don’t put a stop to this.:eek:

**DATES ****18th October **The prominent Irish human rights expert, Conor Gearty QC, now Professor of Human Rights at the London School of Economics, will throw down markers for the Roman Catholic Church in the face of lesbian and gay rights. Gearty, who is also Rausing Director of the Centre for the Study of Human Rights will outline the challenges to the Church when he delivers the 2nd Alan Bray Memorial Lecture in London on 18 October 2003. The lecture is sponsored by the Roman Catholic Caucus of the Lesbian & Gay Christian Movement. There will be a theological response from Dr. Gerard Loughlin, Senior Lecturer in Theology at the University of Newcastle. The 2nd Alan Bray Memorial Lecture takes place on Saturday, 18 October 2003, 2.00 pm, at St. Anne’s Church, 55 Dean Street, London W1D 6AF. A Reception will follow the Lecture. Booking fee: £15.00 (before 11 October) ?20.00 (at door) Further details: Martin Pendergast - 020 8986 0807 lgcm_rccaucus@hotmail.com Bookings to: RC Caucus, PO Box 24632, London E9 6XF - cheques: “RC Caucus” Roman Catholic Caucus, Lesbian & Gay Christian Movement, PO Box 24632, London E9 6XF 020 7226 0847

anglocatholicsocialism.org/jubileeevents.html

Organisers hail success of Gay Mass -9/11/04

There was ‘standing room only’ for London’s Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual Catholics at their most recent Mass in Soho, which took place on Sunday.

The Mass made special remembrance of David (Sinders) Morley, the former Soho bar-manager murdered just two weeks before and for whom a Memorial Book has been opened at St. Anne’s Church, Soho, where the Mass took place.

There was also a commemoration of Fannyann Eddy, the Sierra Leonian lesbian human rights activist, also brutally murdered in Freetown at the end of September.

The readings included Dylan Thomas’ powerful poem, ‘And death shall have no dominion’.

The results of a questionnaire distributed at the mass suggest that St. Anne’s Catholic Masses are proving both popular and helpful to many Gay Catholics.

For some, organisers say, the Mass is the only contact they have with the Catholic Church. Others however are energised to continue involving themselves in other local parish or community activities with close to half of attendees saying they are involved in another Catholic community.

Nine out of ten people attending the Mass identify themselves as Catholic and the age range which, say organisers, would be a credit to any ordinary Catholic parish.

Almost half of attendees are under 45 years of age and over 10% are in the 18-30 age group - fairly high compared with most Catholic congregations.

A report has been sent to Bishop Bernard Longley, Chair of the Westminster Archdiocese Pastoral Board, Edmund Adamus, Director of Pastoral Affairs, and the Rev. Jim Kennedy, Parish Priest of Blessed Sacrament Church, Copenhagen Street, near King’s Cross, who is a reference point for lesbian and gay ministry within the Archdiocese.
ekklesia.co.uk/content/news_syndication/article_04119gm.shtml


#8

[quote=e-catholic]It seems that they are Roman Catholic from these articles that I found. What did you find?
[/quote]

e,

St. Anne’s Church is a Church of England (Anglican) parish

St. Anne’s, Soho

Many years,

Neil


#9

[quote=Irish Melkite]e,

St. Anne’s Church is a Church of England (Anglican) parish

St. Anne’s, Soho

Many years,

Neil
[/quote]

Thank You for the link. Now I am really confused. Why the referances to Mass, I didn’t think that Anglicans used the word Mass. Also, the sponsor is listed as a Roman Catholic Gay rights entity (kind of an oxymoron). I don’t know if they know what they are. (besides gay, that is.:slight_smile: )


#10

[quote=watcher]A search at google reveals the depths of their depravity!
They promote homosexuality.
They promote those who sympathise with terrorism.
They are anglocatholic, ie NOT CATHOLIC!!!
[/quote]

Watcher,

After some review, I have concluded St. Anne’s, as I suspected, is a “liberal” ANGLICAN parish who has given sanctuary to a group of “Liberal”, “Dissident” Catholics who have decided that the Scriptures, the Traditions of the Church and the Ordinary and Extraordinary Magisterium of the Church are just plain wrong on the subject of Homosexuality (and probably some other ones as well). And, St. Anne’s seems to support terrorism. ISM has been caught hiding and shielding Palestinian terrorists.

aim25.ac.uk/cgi-bin/frames/fulldesc?inst_id=14&coll_id=1285&full=1&template=1
gaycatholicforum.org/html/body_u_k__communities.html
c-c-c.freeserve.co.uk/
indcatholicnews.com/candgay.html
socialistworker.co.uk/1753/sw175326.htm

Since Canon Alan Griffiths is quite probably an Anglican Priest, and he is Presiding at the Masses, one would have to wonder whether they’re even valid masses, or if the “Gay Catholics” gave that up in order to have their “Gay Mass”…

I do believe that we can say that they are doing wrong in the sight of God and are committing a Mortal Sin, and that if the they do not repent, they might very well find themselves seperated from God when they die. That’s why we need to pray for their souls and that they might be brought to repentence!

There is a way which seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.
Proverbs 14:12 RSV

The term “Anglocatholic” is normally reserved for those Anglicans who would like to think of themselves as Catholics but haven’t made the final step of submitting to the authority of the Pope in Rome or to that of the Local Roman Catholic Bishop/Archbishop (I’m being very specific here). It’s also often used for those who are involved in Anglican Use Parishes in the Catholic Church, in which case they are in submission to the Holy Father.

I don’t see how it applies to At. Annes’ Parish which is hosting these “Dissident” Catholics with their Anglican Masses.

In Him, Michael


#11

[quote=puzzleannie]how fortunate you are to have inside knowledge of who is on the fast track to hell. Even the Catholic church never claimed to know for certain who is in hell, got yer own little source of revelation, eh? newsflash, being homosexual is not a sin, worshipping in the Catholic church in the company of other homosexuals is not a sin. Worshipping in the Catholic church in the company of sinners is not a sin, since we all do every Sunday, as we are all sinners. get a grip.
[/quote]

Amen! Right on, puzzleannie! I totally agree with you on this one! :thumbsup:


#12

[quote=e-catholic]Thank You for the link. Now I am really confused. Why the referances to Mass, I didn’t think that Anglicans used the word Mass. Also, the sponsor is listed as a Roman Catholic Gay rights entity (kind of an oxymoron). I don’t know if they know what they are. (besides gay, that is.:slight_smile: )
[/quote]

E-Catholic:

“High-Church” Anglicans will usally use the term “Mass”, and “Broad-Church” Anglicans will often use it to mimic them. If that isn’t confusing enough, “High-Church” Anglicans also believe in 7 Sacraments, and “Broad-Church” will often act like they belive in them, too.

They recently took a survey of the Church of England (Anglican Church) regarding Christ’s Divinity, His Resurrection and whether or not He was born of a Virgin. Fewer than 30% of the ANGLICAN CLERGY actually believed in those Doctrines, which means they had NO reason to keep their congregants in the pews, except for social action agenda:

One third of clergy do not believe in the Resurrection
By Jonathan Petre, Religion Correspondent
(Filed: 31/07/2002)
telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2002%2F07%2F31%2Fncreed31.xml

If you aren’t confused enough already, the Traditional Anglican Communion, whose members are absolutely horrified at the direction taken by the Anglican Communion over the past 28 years, and at the lack of faith of much of the clergy, has been negotiating with Rome to enter AS A GROUP.

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=28244

We would definitely NOT be questioning the Holy Father on issues such as Abortion, Euthanasia, Women in the Priesthood, Gay Marraige, or HIS AUTHORITY!

Please pray that negotiations, which are alway delicate, are successful. I believe it would benefit both bodies.

In Him, Michael


#13

"Let’s be factual. The words “gay” and “lesbian” denote one thing only, those who practicing homosexual activity. Ministries that do not stress a chaste lifestyle are not ministries in union with the Church."


-MUTS


#14

[quote=watcher]How can THIS be tolerated???

indcatholicnews.com/listing.html

**London: Mass for gay Catholics with their families and friends **
****Sunday 2 January 5pm
At St Anne’s Church 55 Dean Street, London W1D 6AF with Canon Alan Griffiths presiding. All are welcome! Further Information - 020 8986 0807/020 7226 0847

What is happening to this church???
Do these ‘people’ even understand Catholicism???
THIS IS PURE EVIL!!

[/quote]

== They are Catholics - so why should they be denied the Mass ?

I know - why not kill them :slight_smile: - it would be very traditional…

After all, the CCC does say - CCC 2358 - that they should be shot on sight. It doesn’t ? Oh - I would never have guessed that it said that they must be treated with respect.

The people I’m sorry for are those who forget that their horrible remarks might just conceivably lead to more suicides, more hatred for Christ, more loathing for the Church, more loss of faith. That is what will happen, if Catholics haven’t the self-control and common decency to remember that homosexual Catholics may be among the lurkers at this board.

Why should they waste time in a Church which so very obviously loathes and detests the very mention of them; which never ceases to patronise, accuse, and vilify them ? If they are not even allowed the Mass, what has the Church to offer them ? Nothing. ==


#15

[quote=watcher]A search at google reveals the depths of their depravity!
They promote homosexuality.
They promote those who sympathise with terrorism.
They are anglocatholic, ie NOT CATHOLIC!!!
[/quote]

== Quite a lot are opposed to abortion - these are members of PLAGAL.org

As is well known, there are no heterosexual:

adulterers
fornicators
child-molesters
polygamists
child-murderers
terrorists

And here was I thinking Jesus - remember him ? - said something about “Love one another as I have loved you”; obviously He really preached hatred of all mankind - of gays particularly.

I feel sick :frowning: ==


#16

[quote=puzzleannie]being homosexual is not a sin
[/quote]

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2396 (114 bytes ) preview document matches
6 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices …
URL: scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2396.htm

Hmmm which catechism are you using?
Seems that your sarcasm can’t cover your ignorance.
I take it you’re not catholic.


#17

[quote=watcher]CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2396 (114 bytes ) preview document matches
6 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices …
URL: scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2396.htm

Hmmm which catechism are you using?
Seems that your sarcasm can’t cover your ignorance.
I take it you’re not catholic.
[/quote]

I did a search of the catechism and found this
scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2357.htm
Theres no mention of sin here.
So what is the difference between ‘grave depravity’, ‘intrinsically disordered’, and sin?
And please try to be civil:)


#18

[quote=watcher]CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2396 (114 bytes ) preview document matches
6 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices …
URL: scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2396.htm

Hmmm which catechism are you using?
Seems that your sarcasm can’t cover your ignorance.
I take it you’re not catholic.
[/quote]

Note that the term the CCC uses is "homosexual PRACTICES’–it is not addressing the issue of ‘homosexual IDENTITY’. In the second case what is usually meant is someone who has same-sex attractions–or if you will, is ‘tempted’ to think of members of the same gender as sexual partners. Temptation is NOT identical with sin. The term employed by the CCC refers to someone who is not merely ‘tempted’ but who ‘yields’ to temptation.

The issue of who ‘is’ or ‘is not’ Catholic is rather moot. I believe it has been established that the church holding this event is an Episcopalian church. Whether this is an ‘Episcopal Mass’ or not is less clear.


#19

[quote=watcher]CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2396 (114 bytes ) preview document matches
6 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices …
URL: scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2396.htm

Hmmm which catechism are you using?
Seems that your sarcasm can’t cover your ignorance.
I take it you’re not catholic.
[/quote]

Well, Gottle could actually be anything, but all of the posts I’ve read indicate that he or she is quite orthodox. Not neccesarily conservative, but orthodox (the two aren’t synonymous, you know). He was being satirical and a bit sarcastic (naughty Gottle, lacking in chairity). I think what bothers you is that Gottle doesn’t come across as astonishingly self-righteous as you do. He wasn’t defending homosexual practice, he was objecting back-handedly to your tone. He was also citing the Catechism, which states that gays are to be rec. with respect and (you might want to sit down for this) love…Christian love. I’m not endorsing the gay lifestyle or homosexual practice either. It is clearly against the natural law, Holy Writ, Tradition, etc. We must obviously uphold the truth. The Truth, however, can be upheld in Charity. Charity, in fact, may well be all that pulls some people to the Truth. Perhaps, with a grand total of 6 posts under your belt, you would be better advised to watch your tone. Or are you perhaps someone familiar, who was banned under another name, now sneaking back to be as rude as ever you were before? Hmmmm.


#20

[quote=EddieArent]"Let’s be factual. The words “gay” and “lesbian” denote one thing only, those who practicing homosexual activity. Ministries that do not stress a chaste lifestyle are not ministries in union with the Church."

-MUTS
[/quote]

‘Gay’ and ‘lesbian’ refer to people whose ORIENTATION leads them to be sexually tempted by members of their same gender. The words are often used by perfectly sound organizations ministering to those trapped in homosexuality, because the terms are ‘preferred’ by homosexuals themselves. Nothing in the initial post suggested that the ministry involved did not advocate a chaste lifestyle. Subsequent posts indicate that the ministry does NOT advocate such and is militating for the ‘recognition’ of homosexuality. Those posts also strongly suggest that this is an Anglican ‘ministry’ and ipso facto not in union with the Roman Catholic Church.


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