I can't find sorrow for this sin


#1

Okay, so I’m in a mixed marriage (he’s protestant, I’m catholic) and it took place in the catholic church by a catholic priest and all that.

Looking back, I realize that God probably wanted me to wait for a catholic man to marry. But I can’t seem to feel sorry that I married my protestant husband. I’m more sorry for our future children and what this might do to them, but I can’t seemingly feel sorrow for marrying my husband.

I think the reason is I really DO love him. He’s the only guy who’s ever accepted me for me. Mental and physical illnesses included. And still loved me even when he’s seen and gone through the worst of both! I talked to a small handful of catholic guys, about 5 or so, and none of them were ever interested in a long term relationship with me. Most people discover I have these illnesses and just abandon me all together. My husband has been the first person that hasn’t. He’s stuck with me through every stage of my illnesses. ER visits, hospital stays, surgeries, mental health therapy and all that entails (the good, bad, the ugly.)

But since we are supposed to marry Catholics, I can’t get this “sin” out of my mind. I really feel that God doesn’t want this and is mad at me for it. I think he’s mad at me for loving my husband more than doing his will of marrying a catholic.

And, yes, of course, I think my infertility is a sign that all this is truly God and not me. :frowning:


#2

I’m sorry, what sin do you think you committed? You appear to have followed the correct forms for a mixed marriage

it took place in the catholic church by a catholic priest and all that.

.

I think you should talk to a priest about your mentally connecting infertility with God somehow punishing you.

I think you’re being too hard on yourself.


#3

[quote="prolifewife, post:1, topic:199768"]
Okay, so I'm in a mixed marriage (he's protestant, I'm catholic) and it took place in the catholic church by a catholic priest and all that.

But since we are supposed to marry Catholics, I can't get this "sin" out of my mind. I really feel that God doesn't want this and is mad at me for it. I think he's mad at me for loving my husband more than doing his will of marrying a catholic.

And, yes, of course, I think my infertility is a sign that all this is truly God and not me.

[/quote]

what sin? you got married in the Catholic Church so presumably obtained a dispensation to marry a non-Catholic. The sin therefore is in your own mind, not in reality about. Perhaps a chat with the priest who married you would help you put all this in perspective. It is natural to look for someone to blame, or even to blame yourself, when something goes "wrong" and the challenge of infertility is a huge burden to bear, but it is not God's judgment--even when sadly there is some type of sin in the marriage relationship--but a consequence of nature taking its course when something interrupts the natural processes. God does not get "mad" in the way we do and he is not vindictive and retaliatory. Get some sound spiritual direction to help you through this trial. we will be praying for you.


#4

[quote="prolifewife, post:1, topic:199768"]
Okay, so I'm in a mixed marriage (he's protestant, I'm catholic) and it took place in the catholic church by a catholic priest and all that.

Looking back, I realize that God probably wanted me to wait for a catholic man to marry. How have you "realized" this? How can you presume to know that God did not send your husband as he is any more than you think you know it was His plan for you to wait for a Catholic man? But I can't seem to feel sorry that I married my protestant husband. No one is asking you to feel sorrow, so why so you feel that you should? as others have posted, you seem to have done things as you were supposed to so why are you questioning things now? I'm more sorry for our future children and what this might do to them, but I can't seemingly feel sorrow for marrying my husband.

I think the reason is I really DO love him. He's the only guy who's ever accepted me for me. Mental and physical illnesses included. And still loved me even when he's seen and gone through the worst of both! I talked to a small handful of catholic guys, about 5 or so, and none of them were ever interested in a long term relationship with me. Most people discover I have these illnesses and just abandon me all together. My husband has been the first person that hasn't. He's stuck with me through every stage of my illnesses. ER visits, hospital stays, surgeries, mental health therapy and all that entails (the good, bad, the ugly.) So why is it that you think you should feel sorrow for loving a man that sounds like the best thing that could have happened to you? How are you so sure that God did not send your husband to you?

But since we are supposed to marry Catholics, I can't get this "sin" out of my mind. I really feel that God doesn't want this and is mad at me for it. If you are Catholic and you got married in the Church as you were supposed to, why is this a problem for you? That is why there are things in place for you to have been able to marry him.I think he's mad at me for loving my husband more than doing his will of marrying a catholic.

And, yes, of course, I think my infertility is a sign that all this is truly God and not me. Please do not think that you somehow have God all figured out. And please don't think that he is zapping you somehow for anything that you perceive that you did wrong.

How sad this world would be if we all truly got what we deserved and not what God graciously gives us. :(

[/quote]


#5

I’m the product of a mixed marriage. I guess God forgot to punish my dad for marrying a non-catholic.

The next time you feel the need to post more nonsense on this board, why don’t you instead pray asking how you can be the wife that your husband deserves. And then go do something nice for you husband, instead of fostering these ideas in your head that you know are crazy. Sometimes, “don’t feed the troll” applies to our own thoughts in our own head.

Stop being so self absorbed with everything that you want for yourself, and move your thoughts to what you can do to help others, and I bet you will be much happier.

The sin you need to feel sorrow for is coming to this board blaming your husband’s protestantism for your infertility.


#6

[quote="prolifewife, post:1, topic:199768"]
Okay, so I'm in a mixed marriage (he's protestant, I'm catholic) and it took place in the catholic church by a catholic priest and all that.

Looking back, I realize that God probably wanted me to wait for a catholic man to marry. But I can't seem to feel sorry that I married my protestant husband. I'm more sorry for our future children and what this might do to them, but I can't seemingly feel sorrow for marrying my husband.

I think the reason is I really DO love him. He's the only guy who's ever accepted me for me. Mental and physical illnesses included. And still loved me even when he's seen and gone through the worst of both! I talked to a small handful of catholic guys, about 5 or so, and none of them were ever interested in a long term relationship with me. Most people discover I have these illnesses and just abandon me all together. My husband has been the first person that hasn't. He's stuck with me through every stage of my illnesses. ER visits, hospital stays, surgeries, mental health therapy and all that entails (the good, bad, the ugly.)

But since we are supposed to marry Catholics, I can't get this "sin" out of my mind. I really feel that God doesn't want this and is mad at me for it. I think he's mad at me for loving my husband more than doing his will of marrying a catholic.

And, yes, of course, I think my infertility is a sign that all this is truly God and not me. :(

[/quote]

What sin? Your husband is obviously a blessing to you, so why do you not thank God for sending you such a wonderful man who loves and accepts you? You need to love and accept your husband in spite of whatever perceived shortcomings (Protestant faith). Protestants are Christians, too, and you and your husband were married in the Church in the proper way, so you have a valid marriage, right? So where is the sin?
And if you think God is punishing you with infertility, do you believe that other women who are infertile are guilty of committing some sin great enough for God to punish them with infertility? That is not fair to you, and it is not fair to other women who struggle with infertility. Was Sarai guilty of some sin? How about Elizabeth? There are numerous stories in the Bible of great and godly women who cried out to God in their barrenness. God does not always give us what we ask for. Nor does God demand that we marry a specific person and not another. What matters is that when we marry, we honor our marriage and we abide by the vows that we took before God and our spouse.

We are not automatons, but we are co-heirs with Christ, and co-creators (and not just in the biological sense) with God. God gave us amazing creative (not just biological) abilities and awesome responsibility to use those talents for his glory and for the benefit of our fellow humans.
I think your post comes close to spurning a gift from God (your husband) and demanding another gift instead (fertility). Maybe you might use this time when you are experiencing infertility to focus upon getting healthy, emotionally and physically, so that someday soon you will be ready to stand side-by-side with your husband in unity and take on the awesome responsibility of becoming parents. It is not a job for the faint of heart, and doing it well requires a healthy mind and heart and no reservations whatsoever about your partner in parenting.


#7

[quote="prolifewife, post:1, topic:199768"]
Okay, so I'm in a mixed marriage (he's protestant, I'm catholic) and it took place in the catholic church by a catholic priest and all that.

Looking back, I realize that God probably wanted me to wait for a catholic man to marry. But I can't seem to feel sorry that I married my protestant husband. I'm more sorry for our future children and what this might do to them, but I can't seemingly feel sorrow for marrying my husband.

I think the reason is I really DO love him. He's the only guy who's ever accepted me for me. Mental and physical illnesses included. And still loved me even when he's seen and gone through the worst of both! I talked to a small handful of catholic guys, about 5 or so, and none of them were ever interested in a long term relationship with me. Most people discover I have these illnesses and just abandon me all together. My husband has been the first person that hasn't. He's stuck with me through every stage of my illnesses. ER visits, hospital stays, surgeries, mental health therapy and all that entails (the good, bad, the ugly.)

But since we are supposed to marry Catholics, I can't get this "sin" out of my mind. I really feel that God doesn't want this and is mad at me for it. I think he's mad at me for loving my husband more than doing his will of marrying a catholic.

And, yes, of course, I think my infertility is a sign that all this is truly God and not me. :(

[/quote]

I just read on another thread about St. Monica praying for the conversion of her husband and son. Perhaps you are called to pray for your husband's conversion and he is to be a great saint? You can't possibly know.

I know I've read on some of your other threads that you suffer from OCD, and I really, REALLY think this is what is causing you to dwell on this. I don't have any psychological background, and don't suffer from it myself, so I don't have any suggestions about it, but I hope that you are doing the things that are appropriate for you to work past this issue. (talking to your counselor, your CONFESSOR for sure, etc)

And maybe try to think about how your husband would feel if he knew you thought this way, it really is devaluing to him.

God loves us, He wants us to be happy, and although a mixed marriage isn't ideal, your husband (based on other posts) seems to be extremely supportive of your Catholic religion.


#8

[quote="prolifewife, post:1, topic:199768"]

And, yes, of course, I think my infertility is a sign that all this is truly God and not me. :(

[/quote]

STOP...God does not reward us according to our worthiness. Without Christ's redeeming sacrifice none of us have any claim to God's forgiveness.

"...for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust." Mat. 5:45b

Take courage. My cradle Catholic wife and I, a fallen away evangelical, were married in 1985. She prayed faithfully for my conversion. I was confirmed and came into the Catholic Church Easter of 2006.


#9

There is no sin here.

I married a wonderful woman who was “non-religiously committed”

I prayed for her conversion everyday. It didn’t mean that I loved her any less though.

We have 3 children that have been raised in the Faith and I would take them to Church every Sunday (or Saturday).

After 19 years of marriage she called me one Friday afternoon and asked me what I was doing Sunday morning…

…I said nothing planned why?

… she said… I registered for the RCIA class that starts Sunday and wonder if you want to come with me…

I was elated to say the least and started crying… married now for 21 great years and counting.

…anyway… no sin for marrying someone who is not Catholic. Perhaps it is your calling for his conversion.

Keep praying… stay vigilant… and don’t push… the Holy Spirit will work in His time.

God Bless,

Paul


#10

OP,

I think this all boils down to you wanting to make sense of your infertility struggles, that there must be a reason behind it all. I'm telling you now to stop this way of thinking. God does not "punish" you for marrying a protestant, are they not also loved infinitely by our omnipotent God? You were married in the Church, before God, so He has blessed your marriage. You two are now one and seen as such before God, regardless of his religion.

The devil is having a heyday in your head right now, trying to make you feel guilty for the greatest blessing you have, which is your husband! Pray hard and try to push those negative thoughts out of your head, they serve no purpose but to depress you. :(


#11

[quote="NoAvailableName, post:5, topic:199768"]
I'm the product of a mixed marriage. I guess God forgot to punish my dad for marrying a non-catholic.

The next time you feel the need to post more nonsense on this board, why don't you instead pray asking how you can be the wife that your husband deserves. And then go do something nice for you husband, instead of fostering these ideas in your head that you know are crazy. Sometimes, "don't feed the troll" applies to our own thoughts in our own head.

Stop being so self absorbed with everything that you want for yourself, and move your thoughts to what you can do to help others, and I bet you will be much happier.

The sin you need to feel sorrow for is coming to this board blaming your husband's protestantism for your infertility.

[/quote]

I'm sorry, but this post was completely inappropriate. You write as if you were responding to an attack, but no attack on you was made.

The OP was posting in distress of heart. The proper response to that is sympathy and reassurance, not attack. The OP is not saying that you shouldn't exist, but that she wishes her own marriage was blessed with a child like you (although presumably a little kinder).

It is perfectly possible to feel that you have committed a terrible sin by doing something, where others would be committing a lesser or even no sin by dong the same thing. Judging your own actions too harshly, as the OP did, does not imply a similar judgement on the actions of others.

Also, nowhere in her post does the OP blame her husband for their infertility (which may be just as much a cross for him to bear as it is for her). It is a little closer to say she blames her own Catholicism for their infertility.

Speaking honestly of the distress you are feeling is NOT a sin, even if some of that distress is due to a mistaken cause.

Infertility is a heartbreaking and very thought-consuming cross to bear. It is even worse these days, when so many people use methods to become pregnant that are not allowed by the Church (e.g. in vitro), so that infertility is a less common problem now than it was. Also, of course, the terrible curse of abortion makes it harder to adopt.

Still, my message to the OP is to remember the beginning of John 9:

As he passed by, he saw a man blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" Jesus answered, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be made manifest in him."

The idea that our hardships in this life are a direct result of how "happy" God is with us is NOT a Catholic idea. As others have pointed out, it is no sin to marry in accord with the rules of the Church, as you did. If it were a sin to marry a non-Catholic, the Church would not have come up with rules about HOW to do it (which you followed), but would instead have just forbidden it.

prolifewife, you do not know in what way the works of God may be made manifest in you because of your infertility. It may be that the infertility is only temporary. Or it may be that by your suffering patiently borne, you may be a witness that keeps someone from serious sin, which might otherwise have started them down a path that leads to Hell. You must trust that God loves you no matter what, and that even if your marriage had been a sin (which it wasn't), He would still be arranging things for your true best interests, even though you may not understand how until after death.

God bless you,

--Jen


#12

[quote="BillP, post:2, topic:199768"]
I'm sorry, what sin do you think you committed? You appear to have followed the correct forms for a mixed marriage .

I think you should talk to a priest about your mentally connecting infertility with God somehow punishing you.

I think you're being too hard on yourself.

[/quote]

Yes, please, please talk to someone in a professional capacity that can help you with the issues you are dealing with.

But please in the future, choose your words a little bit more carefully when presenting infertility as God somehow punishing you. There are plenty of members here that have experienced infertility, either temporarily or permanently who could be offended by you inferring that infertility is somehow a punishment for our sins. Its not a punishment, it is a physical condition that sometimes God can work through, but it should never, ever be seen as a result of God being angry with us or scolding us. He always, always works for our goodness, that just sometimes means we have to look past our own desires to see what blessings he wants us to receive. I would think in your situation, your husband is one of those blessings.


#13

[quote="mommamaree, post:6, topic:199768"]

I think your post comes close to spurning a gift from God (your husband) and demanding another gift instead (fertility). Maybe you might use this time when you are experiencing infertility to focus upon getting healthy, emotionally and physically, so that someday soon you will be ready to stand side-by-side with your husband in unity and take on the awesome responsibility of becoming parents. It is not a job for the faint of heart, and doing it well requires a healthy mind and heart and no reservations whatsoever about your partner in parenting.

[/quote]

Excellent post! :thumbsup:


#14

I, too, married outside the faith, in a Catholic Church with proper dispensation. I wish I had married a Catholic and a better man -- my man is narcissistic and addicted to lusting after other women, etc. God did not send that suffering to me -- he allowed it for my own growth and good and salvation. He did not send me the same suffering of infertility that you have to endure, which was not sent by God either, but he does help me with the suffering this marriage brings me and He sends wisdom and strength to help me raise our children to see the wrongness of their father's actions, inactions, inattention and attention and to become better people thru the sorrow they have in their relationships with their father. It is sad and hollow-feeling many times to not have our heart's desire given to us in the here and now, but i am growing and seeing the wisdom day by painful day, even with the depression and all that going through this has caused. I prayer for your comfort and understanding and endurance, and for your heart's desire to be fulfilled or to at least become bearably easier and carried by God's love and strength.


#15

great advice.

prolifewife, it seems that you are struggling very hard lately with these thoughts and like said above, the devil is having a heyday in your head right now. Many many prayers for you dear, these are not easy crosses you have to bear.:console::signofcross::gopray2:

My mom struggled greatly with OCD which made her constantly battle the thought that God didn’t care about her, or even that he hated her and that is why he gave her so many physical ailments to suffer… Of course she knew logically that this was boloney. Our priest had advised her to first of all make a concerted deliberate effort to say to yourself, I’m NOT going to think that way. Secondly, at the very hint of that kind of thinking, to touch something holy as a physical ‘cue’ to help switch your brains thoughts, along with a short prayer. My mom would touch her rosary which she always had an say the Glory Be. It helped her a lot.

Another thing that helped her was getting out of the house. Like I said she had many many physical ailments, and that often meant she was confined to the house for loooong periods of times, much of the time in bed as well, alone in the house. This is an absolute recipe for disaster for someone with depression and/or OCD. it was when she didn’t get out that she felt emotionally worse, spiritually worse, and then physically worse because she lost her will to do much of anything. I know you have mentioned in the past not being able to get out much, and that’s why I bring this up. In whatever way you can, TRY like heck to get out of the house, even if it’s to sit in the yard or walk a hundred feet down the street and come back. Have hubby take you out for a drive, something. It really is important.


#16

[quote="revert_jen, post:11, topic:199768"]
IThe OP was posting in distress of heart. The proper response to that is sympathy and reassurance, not attack.

[/quote]

Sometimes the correct way to show love for a person is to bluntly tell them the truth. ProLifeWife has been coddled on here plenty of times after posts similar to this and it doesn't appear to have done her any good so far. Jesus said plenty of harsh things to people -- much harsher than what I wrote. I wrote what I wrote because it was what I thought she needed to hear, not to win any popularity or kindness points on this forum.

I have no ill will towards this person, although I admit I do take many of her rants personally, being the product of a mixed marriage myself.

Really I wish posters on here would stop showing her sympathy and reassurance. I know this sympathy is well intentioned, but I suspect it is just encouraging the poster to have and post these thoughts, since she knows how much sympathy will be thrown her way when she does. Basically she is getting too much positive reinforcement.


#17

[quote="NoAvailableName, post:16, topic:199768"]
Sometimes the correct way to show love for a person is to bluntly tell them the truth. ProLifeWife has been coddled on here plenty of times after posts similar to this and it doesn't appear to have done her any good so far. Jesus said plenty of harsh things to people -- much harsher than what I wrote. I wrote what I wrote because it was what I thought she needed to hear, not to win any popularity or kindness points on this forum.

I have no ill will towards this person, although I admit I do take many of her rants personally, being the product of a mixed marriage myself.

Really I wish posters on here would stop showing her sympathy and reassurance. I know this sympathy is well intentioned, but I suspect it is just encouraging the poster to have and post these thoughts, since she knows how much sympathy will be thrown her way when she does. Basically she is getting too much positive reinforcement.

[/quote]

NoAvailableName -
I didn't read your post as an attack on ProLifeWife either. I read it as if you were taking her by the shoulders and turning her to see reality and shaking her out of her emotional prison. It was straight talk, to be sure, but sometimes that is exactly what we need when we are holding onto a lie and refusing to turn to the truth. I have seen many of her posts here, too, expressing her distress over her linking mixed marriage with infertility, and we need to be straight with her and not enable her emotional illness.

ProLifeWife -
You have admitted many times that you struggle with OCD (and with depression, too, correct?). You are drowning in the swirling thoughts of your mind, thoughts that are not based in reality. Don't blame your marriage, or your perceived sins, or God. The blame for this despair you feel truly belongs to the illness you struggle with. You are dealing with overwhelming obsessive thoughts that are not true. Please, please, talk to your priest, your husband, and your therapist right away. It is not healthy to try to bear this alone. Above all, remember that God in His mercy does not give us what we deserve, and thank God for that, for we would all be damned. God, in His grace, gives us what we do not deserve, like the blessings of a good husband, the Sacraments available to you through the Catholic Church, even being alive happens only by the grace of God. Focus your attention more upon others, and less upon your suffering, and you will find that God will lessen your experience of suffering. During times of great suffering in my own life, I have found myself praying for a loved one, and suddenly realize that my suffering decreased during that time. Being there for someone else, whether through prayer or service or friendship, helps us all get out of our own head for a while and realize that we ALL suffer, but each of us suffer in different ways.
One of the wisest pieces of advice I ever received was that there are two questions common to humanity in times of suffering. The first question, and the one we should NEVER ask ourselves, is 'Why me, God?' The second question, and the one that never fails to yield results to our benefit is 'What now, God?' So rather than trying to find a reason for your suffering, ask God to turn your tears into diamonds and to cause a rose garden to bloom in your briar patch. See what I am saying? Ask God to remake you into an even more beautiful creation so that you can point to the scars you bear from your suffering as badges of honor, those marks of strength and beauty that make you real.


#18

Thank you, Lord, for sending such a wonderful man to prolifewife.:gopray2:

And thank you for giving her the good sense to marry him.:gopray2:


#19

I thank you all for being kind and patient with me. :hug1:

This has been a very difficult time for me. My mother is very ill, my husband is having to work lots of overtime, my therapist AND spiritual director both announced within 24 hours of each other that they are having to move. My therapist is trying to find another therapist, but it won't be the same for sure. My current therapist has suffered from OCD, infertility and is also Catholic. It was a mach made in heaven. Now it's gone, just like that. And to find a priest who's willing to talk to you when you have severe OCD is no small adventure. :(

I know I sound crazy with all these posts lately. I know they don't make any sense, and are even amusing to read at times. But they are very real and alive in my mind. All day, every day, even at night while I sleep I have nightmares. Without end. Ever. :( And I have no one but my husband to talk to anymore. :(

I should give a little background maybe into why this all seems so real to me. Hopefully I don't cause scandal in the process.

I was in the religious life (novitiate) for two years of active discernment. It was during this time that the OCD was discovered, diagnosed, and began it's treatment. I had to leave the religious life of course, which since I hadn't made vows yet, wasn't that difficult physically. Emotionally, it crushed me and I had the worst nervous breakdown of my life.

Fast forward a few years. I was finally making some sense of life, through the help of therapy and medicines. I realized I was probably called to the married life and was looking forward to meeting a good catholic husband and having a family together.

Fast forward another couple of years. (Gee I'm getting old quickly! :o) No catholic would have the time of day with me. The two I talked to with any length, one married another woman, the other couldn't handle my problems. So after two years of trying and no luck I was miserable. I thought, the religious life isn't for me, married life isn't for me, nothing is for me I guess. I felt like a total failure in life.

Lo and behold, just a few months after the second worst period of my mental health history, I met my now husband. He liked me and accepted me from the beginning. Mental, physical and spiritual problems and all. I was so in shock that I was actually loved and accepted by a man, I let everything else slide. Our relationship was sinful from the beginning. We were both so desperate for love that we gave into lust and sin and repeatedly committed fornication, contraception, and cohabited. I kept making confession after confession trying to get out of this sinful rut. This after having studied the religious life. I felt so dirty, so evil, so bad. I felt God must be so very mad at me, must hate me even. I knew it wasn't the best choice to marry a protestant man, but again, didn't care much what God thought, after all, none of the catholic men worked out. So we planned on marriage. In the church of course. ;)

Fast forward a year. We finally were married in the church. Everything that was so sinful before was now beautiful and sacramental, so it was supposed to be. But all I could remember was the past. The horrible sinful past. So after two more years I made a general confession thinking I didn't get all my mortal sins in. Did it help? For a little while, but of course I'm back to doubting if I confessed everything or got all my mortal sins in and their nature and circumstances and all right. So I am thinking of making another general confession to try to get this all in.

Anyways can you see why I think God is punishing us with infertility? For all the bad and sin we committed before marriage. For marrying a protestant man after I knew full well it was best to wait for a catholic man. For not getting further treatments or tests for the infertility. For not trying our absolute best and hardest to beat it. For failing God in so many, many ways. It's just so hard. I feel like dirt, and I don't think I will ever get over the shame of it all, the scandal it caused, and after all God had done for me. I'm a total failure for the third time. I just don't think I'm ever going to get over it all. :crying:


#20

OP- It is OK, you didn't sin - unless maybe it is something in your marriage you are looking at and that is something that does not need to be discussed here.

Now possibly God knows what is best. You need to take care of your health - you may not be able to carry a baby to full term with your medical issues. One thing at a time.

Two years ago I would have given anything to raise my stepdaughter - now in my situation I know it iwll be a long time before I can raise any child. NO child will do OUR will - they will do what they want. We will adapt.

Take care..

NoAvailableName- Christian Charity - It is a gift of the Holy the Spirity - enough said


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