I dealt with a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses today! :D


#1

Hey everybody,

I’m so excited I dealt with a couple of JWs today! :smiley:

It was the first time they’ve come to my house. I was actually quite surprised when I answered the door. At first I thought they were canvassers for some political party when they mentioned the gap between rich and poor is growing and whether I ever thought that poverty would be eliminated blah blah blah. At first I thought they were NDP or Communists or Marxist-Leninists or something. Then they started reading some Bible passages and I thought “Mormons,” probably because I had just seen that documentary on PBS.

But then when I saw the word “Jehovah” at the top of the page of the pocket Bible they gave me I knew I was dealing with Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Honestly, I was a little nervous at first not knowing what to say. My mind was all confused about the distinctive beliefs of the Mormons and JWs, trying to remember correctly. And when I get nervous I stop making much sense. But then they started talking about the Kingdom of God/Heaven and how it hasn’t been established yet blah blah blah. I thought, “wait a minute” and I remembered Matthew 16.

So I flipped to Matthew 16:18 and started reading from their “bible”:

'I tell you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my…

chur–CON-GRE-GA-TION’

And I rolled my eyes and groaned and I think I even started laughing. I totally wasn’t expecting it.

So I ran in to grab my iBook and went to BibleGateway.com and picked 5 translations at random did a search on Matt 16:18 and showed them that they all said “church”. And I mentioned that if we were to look at French, or Italian translations or the translation in any other language, they would all say “church”.

So I said it really seemed to me that Christ was establishing a real, physical part of his Kingdom here on earth, his Church, and that Peter was somehow given some authority over it. So I need to look for a Church that goes all the way back to the time of Christ, is present throughout the world, has Peter in it and an authority in it. And we all know there’s only one church that fits that description! :slight_smile:

Later they started talking about some alleged prophecy in Daniel, and the passage was, like all prophecies, opaque and confusing and difficult to understand and interpret, and I said as much, and they retorted that the Bible is self-interpreting and I screamed, “What!”

I told them that this was not logical since we were disagreeing right now about how to interpret passages. They told me to ask the Holy Spirit to show me the true interpretation. I said that a couple of Mormons said the same thing, but that they have a completely different interpretation than JWs had. So how can I know the true interpretation?

Then I remembered the line from Peter (or was it Paul?) that ‘no prophecy of scripture is for the private interpretation of man’ (is that close?) but I couldn’t remember where it was. But she said she was familiar with it. And so I asked them why they were engaging in a private interpretation of prophecy, when Peter (or Paul) said not to.

I said that to find the true interpretation of that prophecy I need to find that Church that has Peter in it, and the authority to interpret these difficult passages. Then they started to get a little upset/riled up and said we don’t need a church, we have the bible to tell us the truth and flipped out that passage in Paul about how 'the bible is good for reproof etc…"

I told them that passage is great. I believe it 100%, but nowhere does it say the bible is the only source of truth. And in fact St. Paul said that it is the church which is the pillar and foundation of the truth, not the Bible.

BOOM.

Check. Mate.

After that they I invited them to come to that church that Christ founded later this evening with me. But they were upset, saw that they were getting nowhere with me, said no and left.

So how do you think I did for the first time out? Was my line of attack a good one? Should I have tried something else? Any advice for next time?

I can’t wait to run into some Mormons now! :thumbsup:


#2

Humility.


#3

Yes, probably humility, and I mean that in the nicest possible way.


#4

While the title of your thread is a bit triumphalistic, I think you did great! I love these debates too.


#5

You did better then I was ever able to! Who knows, maybe you planted a seed (or caused the plant to finally sprout). I think jschwem said he started having doubts in the JW’s because of a person who could do what you did. :thumbsup:


#6

It sounds like you did very well, especially for being caught off guard. I pray that you frustrated them enough to cause them to think and find out about what you said. Pray that the Holy Spirit germinates the seed that got planted in them.


#7

MY MAN ! Nice work. :thumbsup:

Suggestions? Keep doing your homework like the rest of us and do NOT stop praying. Prayer is key!

Tomster


#8

Amazing isn’t it. I had a similar incident.


#9

Aww )-:
By the thread title, I thought you had actually killed them.
Oh well, I guess your actual approach was almost as good.

(Please note, this post is not to be taken seriously)


#10

Oh, you’re just no fun at all. :stuck_out_tongue:


#11

If they return you might want to talk about the Divinity of Christ.
Though their bible has been greatly altered on the verses that prove the Divinity of Christ, you can still find passages that have not been changed to prove their “doctrine” on Jesus not being God.
I would recommend Revelation 1:8 which shows that the Alpha and Omega" is Jehovah, then show them Revelation 22 12-13 which says “I am the Alpha and Omega”… show them that in verse 16, it is Jesus that is saying this, and ask them how many “beginnings and ends” are there. (They might first think that Rev 22 is speaking about Jehovah, ask them who it is referring to before showing them verse 16.)
You could also compare Isaiah 44:6 and Revelation 1:17-18. which talk about the “first and last”.

Also John 20:28 where Thomas says "My Lord and my God"
they are both capitalized in their version in the New World bible, which they use, which would show that it is talking about the one true God.

They might say that Thomas was just excited and saying "Oh my God!!"
but that would have been blasphemy, and Thomas being a devout Jew would never have done that , also they might say that he said my Lord, and then turned to heaven and said my God, but if they do that tell them that it is taking what he said out of context, he said “My Lord AND my God.”

When proving the divinity of Christ, they will quote about Jesus being Inferior to God. (John 14:28 and 1 Corinthians 11:3) (for the Father is greater than I.)
But you will need to show them that these passages are talking about positon, not nature. The term “greater” would relate to his position, while the term “better” would refer to nature.

ie. The President is greater than me (position), but is the President better than me (nature), is he a superior human being?

Philippians 2:6-8 will show that Jesus’ nature is equal to God (Divinity), while in Hebrews 1:4 it states that Jesus is better (superior) than the Angels (Jesus is Devine, the Angels are not). It is speaking about nature there.

I have had a couple of the JW’s show up at my door twice recently, I am hoping they return so I can share the reason for my hope with them some more.


#12

I was in a conversation with a fellow Catholic once about Protestant theology. He reminded me, when I got a bit too enthusiastic, about speaking with people of different theologies out of love, even when talking about why they’re wrong. I will always remember that.


#13

I must also agree that humility must be present at all times with these encounters. While your argument was very good, we should never argue or debate to feed our own pride.

No one is a prize to be captured, or a feather to be put in a cap. We’re out to win souls, so even when debating, always be charitable and humble. It takes alot of practice. I’m still practicing . . . and practicing . . .

Do all for the glory of God with genuine humility.

They’d be more apt to come back again that way.


#14

Outstanding! Keep learning and keep being brave! We have the fullness of Truth - so don’t ever think anyone can prove you wrong. Just know the right answers and the Holy Spirit will guide you.

:thumbsup:

~Liza


#15

Good to hear you engaged them, and did not tell them to kindly leave your property!

That is right now better than I would do after reading their Awake! magazine they left on my steps. All anti-Catholic tripe!
:mad:

I will not even try to engage them now since they are promoters of venomous lies to attack the Catholic Church.


#16

But are they not still souls worthy of saving? Or at least trying? :shrug:

~Liza


#17

Sure they are! Just not now, until I cool down a bit. I need some time to forgive them for the horrible things they print.


#18

As an exJW, I remember how it was hammered into our heads at the meetings that we were always being persecuted by “wicked old Christendom” in some way or another.

Well, now many years out of the Organization,
I can clearly see that the organization itself brings persecution on it’s hapless members by the libellous, slanderous, vicious things that they print.


#19

It’s just that while growing up I used to hear that pride comes before a fall.

I’m not equating those that visited you as demons, but this flashed in my head.

Luke 10:20 But yet **rejoice not **in this, that spirits are subject unto you; but rejoice in this, that your names are written in heaven.

Our Good Lord, humble to the last.

Yes exactly, although they may not be able to refute your defense, you may send them away bitter, and even if they think you have valid points, they may dig their heels in because it could be seen as triumphalist.


#20

:rotfl:

I had a similar experience and I had one of the JW(s) stand on my driveway and scream, “Don’t you DARE pray for me!”. She had to be dragged away by another member and they have not returned yet.

I think you did very well and I think you can keep praying, keep studying and dagnab it work on that humility will ya? I know I HAVE AND BOY OH BOY HAS IT HELPED ME…:ehh:

ooops


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