"I do wish Cardinal George would do something about Andrew Greeley".


#1

That quote by TPJCatholic in another thread. Since we like to keep topics straight here, I started this new thread.

Ok, TPJ, what would you have His Eminence DO about the good Father?
Oh, and why?

John


#2

[quote=John Higgins]That quote by TPJCatholic in another thread. Since we like to keep topics straight here, I started this new thread.

Ok, TPJ, what would you have His Eminence DO about the good Father?
Oh, and why?

John
[/quote]

Fr. Andrew Greeley is already forbidden to celebrate Mass in public. While Cardinal George can’t do anything to discipline him, other than kick him out of the archdiocese, he could publicly denounce what he has written about the papal conclave in particular and the Catholic Church in general.


Cardinal George was a speaker at a dinner to honor Fr. Greeley a couple of years ago. He could have declined to go to the dinner but instead not only went, he was also a speaker praising Greeley. It’s this kind of behavior that has me disappointed about Cardinal George. He’s certainly an improvement over Cardinal Bernadin, but he’s not the archbishop we thought we were getting in 1997.


Overall, I have a favorable opinion of Cardinal George, as he is a very intelligent man and teaches clearly on matters of faith. He is faithful to the Magisterium when he teaches, which is a huge improvement over Cardinal Bernadin. It’s his actions, or lack thereof, that leaves me disappointed.


#3

[quote=Swiss Guard]Fr. Andrew Greeley is already forbidden to celebrate Mass in public.
[/quote]

You’re going to have to prove that. I’d like to see it in writing, especially since I know where he still says Mass in Chicago when he’s here.

“Father Greeley has given great attention to the role of imagination in the life of faith,” George said. “What he is doing is re-evangelizing the imagination, using fiction to express the faith and the mysteries of the faith. That’s an extraordinarily significant project. Pope John Paul talks about faith creating culture. Using fiction is one way to do that,” George said.

“I’ve read four or five of the earlier books [of fiction] and a recent Blackie Ryan novel. I caught what he was trying to do,” George said. “How well he’s doing it is for someone else to judge.”

Informed of George’s comments, Greeley said simply: “I’ll take that.”

John


#4

swiss,

I agree with your statements.

I will add that Father Greeley has written many articles that are simply filled with dissent, and his novels are known to contain near porn-level writing (at times).

Go here:

catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=31&art_id=25020

catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=1243

I would like to see Cardinal George make more public and definitive statments against these sorts of Priests, thereby letting all Priests in his Archdiocese know that they are called to obedience.


#5

[quote=Swiss Guard]** He’s certainly an improvement over Cardinal Bernadin, but he’s not the archbishop we thought we were getting in 1997.**

Just what archbishop DID you think that you were getting in 1997? At the time, all anybody really said was “Who the heck is this guy?” and “He’s only been Archbishop of Portland for a year… is he even qualified for Chicago?” Nobody, including the conservative Catholics in Chicago who were initially VERY critical of George, thought that we were getting someone who would come in to smackdown.


Overall, I have a favorable opinion of Cardinal George, as he is a very intelligent man and teaches clearly on matters of faith. He is faithful to the Magisterium when he teaches, which is a huge improvement over Cardinal Bernadin.
[/quote]

I’m not sure that you could find much of a place where Cardinal Bernardin didn’t teach in fidelity to the Magesterium.

Perhaps there is something akin in dioceses like Chicago and San Francisco (as we now see with all the “wha, huh?!” over Levada’s appointment to head the CDF), where the exterior culture shapes the opinion of Catholics towards the ordinary more than the man, himself.


#6

[quote=TPJCatholic]I would like to see Cardinal George make more public and definitive statments against these sorts of Priests, thereby letting all Priests in his Archdiocese know that they are called to obedience.
[/quote]

Sometimes, trying to act in such a public way can actually be counterproductive, inciting a backlash which makes things worse than they were to begin with.


#7

Chicago,

I agree that sometimes acting publicly can do harm under certain circumstances, yet so can the appearance of doing nothing…the sexual abuse crisis is a great example, the Church had already cleaned-up a lot of its own problem when the crisis hit and they did that quietly behind the scenes and yet the crisis still caused incredible harm. Sometimes leaders need to go public so the flock knows they leaders are behind them.


#8

[quote=TPJCatholic]Chicago,

I agree that sometimes acting publicly can do harm under certain circumstances, yet so can the appearance of doing nothing…the sexual abuse crisis is a great example, the Church had already cleaned-up a lot of its own problem when the crisis hit and they did that quietly behind the scenes and yet the crisis still caused incredible harm. Sometimes leaders need to go public so the flock knows they leaders are behind them.
[/quote]

You know that is an excellent point. So many people who don’t know too much about the sex abuse issue are as angry about what they perceive as a ‘cover up’ as they are about the abuse. Sunshine is often a very good disinfectant.

Lisa N


#9

Lisa,

I like your line: “Sunshine is often a very good disinfectant.”

Mind if I use it?


#10

[quote=TPJCatholic]Lisa,

I like your line: “Sunshine is often a very good disinfectant.”

Mind if I use it?
[/quote]

You are free to use it. I didn’t make it up though, I think it’s some kind of old saying that stuck in my mind. I was on an organization task force trying to clean up some rules that had resulted in fraudulent activity in the past. We suggested basically opening up the books and letting everyone see the truth to prevent rumors and lies being spread. We called it the “Sunshine Rule” based on that saying.

I like it though because of the double entendre. Sunshine actually IS a disinfectant and letting the light shine in on a problem often cleans it up too.

Lisa N


#11

chicago
I’m not sure that you could find much of a place where Cardinal Bernardin didn’t teach in fidelity to the Magesterium.

Well, not everybody is in agreement with you on that one chicago.

Catholic Writer** James Hitchcock* wrote:

“He [Bernardin] consistently used his influence to promote liberal causes, even attacks on Church teachings and traditions.”

READ MORE ABOUT CARDINAL BERNADIN & OTHERS HERE:

rcf.org/docs/beginningoftheend.htm

*James Hitchcock, professor of history at St. Louis University, writes and lectures on contemporary Church matters. His column appears in the diocesan press. His two-volume book on religion and the Supreme Court has just been published by Princeton University Press.
E-Mail: Dr. James Hitchcock


#12

Frank,

If Stephen Brady of RCF told me the sun rose in the east, I’d seriuosly research the answer. He should have stuck to making pizzas.

John


#13

[quote=Swiss Guard]Fr. Andrew Greeley is already forbidden to celebrate Mass in public.
[/quote]

Swiss Guard, I’m going to have to insist that you back this up or retract it. Besides it likely being untrue (I’m sending e-mails to the chanceries in Tucson and Chicago), it’s slander.

John


#14

[quote=Swiss Guard]Cardinal George was a speaker at a dinner to honor Fr. Greeley a couple of years ago. He could have declined to go to the dinner but instead not only went, he was also a speaker praising Greeley.
[/quote]

Hmm. Is this true? I would not be surprised, just wondering if there is documentation.


#15

[quote=John Higgins]Frank,

If Stephen Brady of RCF told me the sun rose in the east, I’d seriuosly research the answer. He should have stuck to making pizzas.

John
[/quote]

Does that mean you have proof that they are untrue?


#16

[quote=chicago]I’m not sure that you could find much of a place where Cardinal Bernardin didn’t teach in fidelity to the Magesterium.

Perhaps there is something akin in dioceses like Chicago and San Francisco (as we now see with all the “wha, huh?!” over Levada’s appointment to head the CDF), where the exterior culture shapes the opinion of Catholics towards the ordinary more than the man, himself.
[/quote]

How about when Cardinal Bernadin came out and said the Gospel of St. John needs to be changed because it’s anti-Semitic??? Do you call this obedience to the Magisterium?


How about Cardinal Bernadin saying on TV that we will have women priests in 10 years back in 1994 when John Paul II came out with his apostolic letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis? This is obedience???


Let’s not forget Cardinal Bernadin also authorized the use of altar girls long before approval came from Rome. Cardinal Bernadin may have been many things, but faithful to the teachings of the Magisterium is not one of them.


As for the type of archbishop I thought we were getting, I thought we would have someone like Bishop Bruskewitz whose actions would back up his words. Cardinal George is an excellent teacher of the faith, but some of his actions have disappointed me.


#17

[quote=John Higgins]You’re going to have to prove that. I’d like to see it in writing, especially since I know where he still says Mass in Chicago when he’s here.

John
[/quote]

Is this a public Mass, because I believe he has only been forbidden to offer a public Mass. If he says a Mass that is not a regularly scheduled parish Mass and people attend, it would be considered a private Mass. I will have to check for documentation on Fr. Greeley not being allowed to offer a public Mass.


#18

[quote=John Higgins]Swiss Guard, I’m going to have to insist that you back this up or retract it. Besides it likely being untrue (I’m sending e-mails to the chanceries in Tucson and Chicago), it’s slander.

John
[/quote]

**First of all, it can’t be slander, since slander covers the spoken word. It would be libel. **


If what I stated is libel, Fr. Greeley would have to prove that I wrote this with malicious intent, which I have not done. Therefore, I am not guilty of libel, I may be incorrect in what I stated.


Please find out the meaining of a word before you start making wild accusations. Thank you in advance.


#19

[quote=Swiss Guard]**Is this a public Mass, because I believe he has only been forbidden to offer a public Mass. **
[/quote]

I know from personal experience (several years ago) that Fr. Greeley is still saying mass. I hear from others that he is still helping out at a parish now. I never heard that he was restricted. I know he might not be officially assigned but he is saying mass in public.


#20

[quote=John Higgins]Frank,

If Stephen Brady of RCF told me the sun rose in the east, I’d seriuosly research the answer. He should have stuck to making pizzas.

John
[/quote]

So, this fellow is a liar? Do you get your Windex wholesale?


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