I dont Believe in the scapular!!!


#1

How can wearing a piece of brown cloth assure one of heaven? If a person is in Mortal Sin, there going to hell regardless if they were this piece of cloth or not. I dont want to hear well it means you have to be out of mortal sin as well for it to work and in grace, well if a person is out of mortal and in grace they can make heaven without the scapular its …not needed.

Give me a break with this Scapular


#2

[quote=SoulRebel777]How can wearing a piece of brown cloth assure one of heaven? If a person is in Mortal Sin, there going to hell regardless if they were this piece of cloth or not. I dont want to hear well it means you have to be out of mortal sin as well for it to work and in grace, well if a person is out of mortal and in grace they can make heaven without the scapular its …not needed.

Give me a break with this Scapular
[/quote]

The scapular, like other sacramentals is an outward sign of your inward devotion. It reminds you everytime you feel it around your neck what it stands for. Just like my rosary bracelet. Everytime I look at it , during the day while I’m working and busy, I say a quick prayer to the Holy Family. It reminds me to keep the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and our Mother in mind while I go about my busy day.
May God be with you,
maggiec


#3

For some people, the physical act of wearing something is a sort of constant reminder that, when the occasion for mortal sin arises, becomes a “oh, wait a minute–I don’t really want to do that” reminder.

No one is obliged to wear any scapular, or take part in any particular private devotion–however, it is undeniable that particular practices are of special help to some people.


#4

you two ladies are dodging the questions. The whole thing with the Scapular is that if you wear it , you are assured of heaven . This is what supposely Mother Mary said, if you wear this brown cloth you automatically go to heaven.

to me that sounds demonic


#5

[quote=maggiec]The scapular, like other sacramentals is an outward sign of your inward devotion. It reminds you everytime you feel it around your neck what it stands for. Just like my rosary bracelet. Everytime I look at it , during the day while I’m working and busy, I say a quick prayer to the Holy Family. It reminds me to keep the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and our Mother in mind while I go about my busy day.
May God be with you,
maggiec
[/quote]

I don’t think you understand the history and use of scapulars, and I have the impression that you don’t want to learn. My advice: don’t wear one. It’s not a doctrine, you know. It’s only one of the many, many sacramentals that enrich our Faith. But it’s certainly not required.

Mel Gibson and I wear the Crusaders’ Scapular :p.

Pace e bene, Jay


#6

SoulREBEL777,
People in mortal sin usually are not inclined to wear scapulars! I don’t know if that makes any sence to you or not. When I die I am going to be wearing my scapular. i am going to wear one for the rest of my life. Mary said she will be waitng for me. So I really don’t care what other people say. Mary said she will be there and that’s enough for me.

Since you are a rebel what else don’t you believe in?

John


#7

No, it’s not a dodge. The idea is that that piece of cloth will keep such spiritual matters at the forefront of one’s mind, leading to finding the grace needed to resist mortal sin (it’s out there regardless, but some people just don’t look). Or alternatively, removing said scapular and giving in–rather like how people might cover up pictures/turn them to the wall if they’re about to engage in behavior that they know the person pictured (say a beloved grandparent or parent) would disapprove of.


#8

[quote=SoulRebel777]How can wearing a piece of brown cloth assure one of heaven? If a person is in Mortal Sin, there going to hell regardless if they were this piece of cloth or not. I dont want to hear well it means you have to be out of mortal sin as well for it to work and in grace, well if a person is out of mortal and in grace they can make heaven without the scapular its …not needed.

Give me a break with this Scapular
[/quote]

So don’t wear one! But as was stated in a previous post (MaggieC), it is an outward sign of an inward devotion, just like a wedding band. Mary’s promise applies to people who live Godly lives, practicing their faith.


#9

[quote=SoulRebel777]you two ladies are dodging the questions. The whole thing with the Scapular is that if you wear it , you are assured of heaven . This is what supposely Mother Mary said, if you wear this brown cloth you automatically go to heaven.

to me that sounds demonic
[/quote]

Think of the scapular as a sign of a contract. If the wearer upholds their end, the Blessed Mother upholds hers. Now then, you are correct that if you stay in a state of grace, attend mass daily, and pray for all the intentions you will not need to worry about heaven. That is not the point. To some people, having the reminder helps them in their quest for holiness. Some people do not need the help, though. At no time can the scapular be a get out of hell free card.

By the way, you are not required to wear the scapular or even believe in it as a matter needed for salvation. But, if you look into it a little more, you will see the value of it.


#10

SoulRebel777,

I’m quite sure you don’t understand the history and use of scapulars, and I have the impression that you don’t want to learn. My advice: don’t wear one. It’s not a doctrine, you know. It’s only one of the many, many sacramentals that enrich our Faith. But it’s certainly not required. But please don’t be bashing others who do know the proper use of scapulars and wear them reverently.

Mel Gibson and I wear the Crusaders’ Scapular :p.

Peace be to your rebellious soul. My soul was rebellious also. It’s a curable condition. :slight_smile:

Jay
ex-atheist


#11

[quote=SoulRebel777]How can wearing a piece of brown cloth assure one of heaven? If a person is in Mortal Sin, there going to hell regardless if they were this piece of cloth or not. I dont want to hear well it means you have to be out of mortal sin as well for it to work and in grace, well if a person is out of mortal and in grace they can make heaven without the scapular its …not needed.

Give me a break with this Scapular
[/quote]

One earns special indulgences by weaing the Scapular that he could not earn otherwise. It is not the same as: one is going to Heaven or Hell based solely upon this. Our Lady has promissed to those who wear Her Scapular protection, especially from the fires of Purgatory. You are not obliged to believe this as an Article of Faith; however, it has been supported for centuries by many Saints. Our Lady’s appearance at Mount Carmel is just as accepted as Our Lady at Fatima or Our Lady appearing at Lourdes.


#12

I think your understanding of the “power” of the brown scapular is incorrect. I downloaded some information from carmelnet.org that might help, but I don’t profess to be either a Carmelite nor knowledgable in details of the scapular.

From Carmelnet.org

The Carmelite Scapular is not:
a magical charm to protect you
an automatic guarantee of salvation
an excuse for not living up to the demands of the Christian life
It is a sign:
which has been approved by the Church for over seven centuries;
which stands for the decision to
follow Jesus like Mary:
be open to God and to his will
be guided by faith, hope, and love
to pray at all times
to discover God present in all that happens around us.

Like any sacramental, it is a private devotion. My understanding is that whatever promise was attached to the brown scapular was directed to Carmelites, not laity who might wear it:

Also from Carmelnet.org:
Originally the scapular and any spiritual privileges attached to it were retained exclusively by the Carmelite friars. According to Richard Copsey, laity who were affiliated to the Carmelite Order in some way wore, as a sign of their affiliation, not the scapular but a white mantle. The mantle had originally been more important for the friars’ identity than the scapular. The late thirteenth and early fourteenth century constitutions refer to the mantle, not the scapular, as the signum suae religionis et professionis, the public identification of the order. [26] The friars needed to be told to wear their scapulars. Consequently in the first century or so of the Order’s history, it was the mantle, not the scapular, that was used to show the affiliation of laity to the Carmelite Order. This changed as the story of the scapular vision began to spread.

It is important to note that in the earliest accounts of the vision, the promise is made not to whoever wears the scapular, but to any Carmelite wearing the scapular. Given this, as the story became popular and spread, there was a clamor on the part of many devout people to have a share in this promise. The restriction of the scapular to the friars (and presumably after 1452 to the nuns) began to change at some point in the late fifteenth century. An important step in this change was the evolution of the Scapular Confraternity which provided the loose affiliation to the Order that gave people permission to wear the scapular without having all the demands of tertiaries. The small scapular with which we are familiar and which can be worn beneath secular clothing became a very popular sacramental as large numbers of laity were enrolled in the Scapular Confraternity.

The site seems to have quite a bit of information on the Carmelites in general and the scapular in particular. I hope the information helps you with your question.

Blessings.


#13

The brown scapular of Our Lady of Mount Carmel: This scapular is the best-known and most popular of the different scapulars. According to tradition, our Blessed Mother appeared to St. Simon Stock at Cambridge, England on Sunday, July 16, 1251. (In our liturgical year, July 16 is the feast day for Our Lady of Mount Carmel.) She presented him with the scapular and said, ‘Take, beloved son, this scapular of thy order as a badge of my confraternity and for thee and all Carmelites a special sign of grace; whoever dies in this garment, will not suffer everlasting fire. It is the sign of salvation, a safeguard in dangers, a pledge of peace and of the covenant."
In this apparition and gift, our Blessed Mother promised a special protection for all members of the Carmelite Order, and a special grace at the hour of death to all who wear the scapular so that they would not perish in Hell but would be taken up to Heaven by her on the first Saturday after their death. (Note that the Church does not teach that wearing a scapular is some sure ticket to Heaven; rather, we must strive to be in a state of grace, implore our Lord’s forgiveness, and trust in the maternal aid of our Blessed Mother — all positive acts of a person who wears a scapular sincerely.)

I got my info from here: catholicherald.com/saunders/02ws/ws020801.htm
I hope that helps. :B


#14

What SR777 is refering to is known as the “first privilege of the Carmelite Scapular.” The authentic list of “indulgences, privileges, and indults” of the Scapular Confraternity of Mount Carmel was last approved on 4 July, 1908, by the Congregation of Indulgences. This summary says nothing of the first privilege.

I may be wrong, but I interrupt this to mean this is a pius belief not a teaching of the church. A catholis is free to ignore it.


#15

listen the whole thing about the scapular is if you wear it YOU ARE ASSURED OF HEAVEN!!! thats the promise…

so if I Were my scapular and then committ adultry with my next door neighbors wife and then the husband comes over and stabs me to death…im still automatically going to heaven cause of my little brown cloth.

This makes no sense


#16

[quote=SoulRebel777]How can wearing a piece of brown cloth assure one of heaven? If a person is in Mortal Sin, there going to hell regardless if they were this piece of cloth or not. I dont want to hear well it means you have to be out of mortal sin as well for it to work and in grace, well if a person is out of mortal and in grace they can make heaven without the scapular its …not needed.

Give me a break with this Scapular
[/quote]

At the moment,i am not wearing the brown scapular but i am wearing the Miraculous Medal.I remember an agnostic workmate of mine who used to ask me what his Star Reading was when
i was trying to read my newspaper during our lunch break.Another thing he used to do was wear what i called his
"girl’s bangle",a bracelet which allegedly stopped you worrying.
In addition,there has been an increase in the number of people wearing a cross,though it is nothing to do with religious faith.Have you never heard of the daft superstitions of sportsmen,
such as footballers who insist on following a set routine before going out to play?Do you not have a problem with that?
In any case,the Carmelite Order can explain the Scapular better than anyone.
members.aol.com/ccmail/scapular.html


#17

[quote=SoulRebel777]listen the whole thing about the scapular is if you wear it YOU ARE ASSURED OF HEAVEN!!! thats the promise…

so if I Were my scapular and then committ adultry with my next door neighbors wife and then the husband comes over and stabs me to death…im still automatically going to heaven cause of my little brown cloth.

This makes no sense
[/quote]

Kartholikos was right. You don’t want to learn. No one wants to listen to your attitude. Learn some charity, without which you please not God, as it is the most important virtue, according to St. Paul. Either listen to what the Scapular actually is without making up your fabricated idea of what it is, or don’t comment at all.


#18

“Note that the Church does not teach that wearing a scapular is some sure ticket to Heaven; rather, we must strive to be in a state of grace, implore our Lord’s forgiveness, and trust in the maternal aid of our Blessed Mother — all positive acts of a person who wears a scapular sincerely”

_> There. See? It says it doesn’t teach that it is a sure way into heaven.


#19

[quote=SoulRebel777]listen the whole thing about the scapular is if you wear it YOU ARE ASSURED OF HEAVEN!!! thats the promise…

so if I Were my scapular and then committ adultry with my next door neighbors wife and then the husband comes over and stabs me to death…im still automatically going to heaven cause of my little brown cloth.

This makes no sense
[/quote]

Rebel, you must uphold your end of the deal.

I did not want to tell you this, but I will. At one time, I wore the scapular at all times. Slowly, I began to enter more and more into mortal sin. Suddenly, I had no desire to wear it, even though I still prayed and attended mass. Now that I am not in that same condition, I do not wear it, but it does not mean that I doubt its power. It is a two way street: if I do not sin and stay faithful to our Lady and Her son, I go to heaven. I cannot commit sin and have the scapular bail me out. That is not how it works nor is that what is promised


#20

newadvent.org/cathen/13508b.htm

check out this link to the catholic encyclopedia that explains the scapular and the origins and beliefs about it…

here is a small portion of the above link:

Whoever, therefore, even though he be now a sinner, wears the badge of the Mother of God throughout life as her faithful servant, not presumptuously relying on the scapular as on a miraculous amulet, but trustfully confiding in the power and goodness of Mary, may securely hope that Mary will through her powerful and motherly intercession procure for him all the necessary graces for true conversion and for perseverance in good. Such is the meaning and importance of the first privilege of the Carmelite Scapular, which is wont to be expressed in the words: “whoever wears the scapular until death, will be preserved from hell”.

maybe this will help you understand a little more, maybe not…

it doesn’t mean you will agree, but at least you’ll get what the church actually teaches.

God bless!

kelly


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