I don't know what Catholics think about this...


#1

OK, so I got a letter from my church today. Basically it says that they are moving away from the EPC (Evangelical Presbyterian Church) for the following reasons:

  1. They want the ability to re-baptize folks who already have been; ie someone who renews thier faith and wants another baptism. Currently they are not allowed to do so.

  2. They want non-EPC ordained pastors to be allowed to serve the Lord’s supper.

Does this bother you as much as me?! It almost seems like they are saying “well we want to do what WE want, so we will find some other denomination (or none at all) that will let us”. This is really, really on my nerves. It feels like I don’t have a church anymore! What do you guys (and gals) think?


#2

First off…as Catholics, we acknowledge only ONE Baptism for the forgiveness of sins…and secondly, only properly Ordained Priest can say Mass and Consecrate the Eucharist…Period. THose are non-negotiables of our Faith and they will never be changed…no matter how much a person, or group of people, would like that to change…

If I were you…I would be angry too. You have reason to be angry. What is happening to your Church is what happens in every Protestant Church…they split away and form a new Church as soon as they don’t agree with something…

Convert to Catholicism and you won’ thave to worry about this :slight_smile:

[quote=Hugh Betcha]OK, so I got a letter from my church today. Basically it says that they are moving away from the EPC (Evangelical Presbyterian Church) for the following reasons:

  1. They want the ability to re-baptize folks who already have been; ie someone who renews thier faith and wants another baptism. Currently they are not allowed to do so.

  2. They want non-EPC ordained pastors to be allowed to serve the Lord’s supper.

Does this bother you as much as me?! It almost seems like they are saying “well we want to do what WE want, so we will find some other denomination (or none at all) that will let us”. This is really, really on my nerves. It feels like I don’t have a church anymore! What do you guys (and gals) think?
[/quote]


#3

Protestantism is the great cancer of Christendom. It just keeps growing and reproducing and infecting.

The Church has the cure, if you look for it.


#4

[quote=Hugh Betcha]OK, so I got a letter from my church today. Basically it says that they are moving away from the EPC (Evangelical Presbyterian Church) for the following reasons:

  1. They want the ability to re-baptize folks who already have been; ie someone who renews thier faith and wants another baptism. Currently they are not allowed to do so.

  2. They want non-EPC ordained pastors to be allowed to serve the Lord’s supper.

Does this bother you as much as me?! It almost seems like they are saying “well we want to do what WE want, so we will find some other denomination (or none at all) that will let us”. This is really, really on my nerves. It feels like I don’t have a church anymore! What do you guys (and gals) think?
[/quote]

Someone asked why 36,000 denominations? Well here is number 36,001. You are correct “well we want to do what WE want, so we will…”

  1. They want the ability to re-baptize folks who already have been; ie someone who renews thier faith and wants another baptism. Currently they are not allowed to do so.

The Church dealt with this issue 1700 or 1800 years ago and determined that based on St. Paul there was only One Baptism, One time.

  1. They want non-EPC ordained pastors to be allowed to serve the Lord’s supper.

Why does that matter? They are all lay ministers anyway!


#5

The Church is the bride of Jesus. It is a marriage. When we marry someone, it is for keeps. We accept the other person for who that person is, not what we want to change him into.

How would you feel about a spouse who suddenly changes all the agreements you made on your wedding day and expects you to change as well?

There is a difference between growth and change. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Growth on the other hand respects the unique gifts God has given you but allows for their development, their fruition, their coming into their fullness. If you are always changing the very ground upon which your life depends, you cannot grow.

More importantly faith is a relationship. It is not something that you master in a book. If someone changes the ground rules of your relationship without consulting you, then you would feel betrayed, right? And that betrayal erodes your ability and willingness to trust right? The erosion of trust erodes your humanness.

Catholicism is about relationship, about community. It is built on trust, free will, respect, love, and vision. It is a rock but not an island unto itself. :wink: Pray that the Lord heals your trust.


#6

Don’t blame you, Hugh. That type of action is what has always driven me away from Protestantism and toward the Catholic Church. I wonder what my wife and in-laws are thinking when they “shop” for churches, as they have a few times the last 25 years. One brother-in-law went from Episcopalian to “Orthodox Presbyterian” because it’s “old school.” LOL

Jim


#7

[quote=Hugh Betcha]OK, so I got a letter from my church today. Basically it says that they are moving away from the EPC (Evangelical Presbyterian Church) for the following reasons:

  1. They want the ability to re-baptize folks who already have been; ie someone who renews thier faith and wants another baptism. Currently they are not allowed to do so.

  2. They want non-EPC ordained pastors to be allowed to serve the Lord’s supper.

Does this bother you as much as me?! It almost seems like they are saying “well we want to do what WE want, so we will find some other denomination (or none at all) that will let us”. This is really, really on my nerves. It feels like I don’t have a church anymore! What do you guys (and gals) think?
[/quote]

unfortunately, it’s the mark of the protestant faith… you don’t like doing it this way, no problem, lets move and do it our way… now how you square that with logic, tradition, and scripture is where we get into some of that fuzzy math… some call it invincible ignorance, i call it pride… imo!


#8

WHY do they want non-EPC ordained ministers to be able to serve the Lord’s supper? I mean, not even getting into the whole Catholic/Protestant arguements, that seems…I don’t know. I mean, I think most of my parent’s Congregationalist congregation was weirded out when a Lutheran became pastor…I would find another church if I were you…I’m weirded out by the non-EPC…does your church not believe in what it’s doing? (Again, not confrontational here, just…WHY?)


#9

This reminds me of Marcus Grodi (of the Journey Home) chatting with a guest and he pointed out how the Lutheran’s periodocally hold a council to vote on what they will proclaim as truth.

The question came up; was Jesus divine? Fortunately for Jesus, the vote was something like 82-18 in His favor. But Marcus commented… do we have the right to vote truths in and out of the faith? What would happen in a generation or two should that same question be voted upon and the results were 52-48 against the Lord’s divinity? Would the Lutheran church officially proclaim that Jesus was not divine?

I don’t want to make you feel bad, Hugh Betcha, but its when churches like yours go through such man-made nonsense that the Catholic church’s validity shines.

Thal59


#10

[quote=adstrinity]WHY do they want non-EPC ordained ministers to be able to serve the Lord’s supper? I mean, not even getting into the whole Catholic/Protestant arguements, that seems…I don’t know. I mean, I think most of my parent’s Congregationalist congregation was weirded out when a Lutheran became pastor…I would find another church if I were you…I’m weirded out by the non-EPC…does your church not believe in what it’s doing? (Again, not confrontational here, just…WHY?)
[/quote]

I know! It hit me all wrong too! I really feel like I have lost my church. I have been looking into converting to Catholic (my fiancee is Catholic) and I don’t know if this is God’s way of showing me the way, or what. All who read this please pray for me, I am really wandering right now. It was confusing enough when I began to find out about Catholics and questioning being a protestant. Now this. My faith is intact, I just really want God to guide me in this.


#11

No offense taken! One of the things that is most appealing to me right now about Catholics is their doctrine. We DO beleive this and DONT believe that. Not all the gray area garbage that seems to be so prevalent in protestant churces. I really like the fact that everything is spelled out in black and white, and has been for 2000 years. It’s just hard for me right now, I was raised a protestant, and some of this is tough to get your head around.


#12

[quote=Hugh Betcha]OK, so I got a letter from my church today. Basically it says that they are moving away from the EPC (Evangelical Presbyterian Church) for the following reasons:

  1. They want the ability to re-baptize folks who already have been; ie someone who renews thier faith and wants another baptism. Currently they are not allowed to do so.

  2. They want non-EPC ordained pastors to be allowed to serve the Lord’s supper.

Does this bother you as much as me?! It almost seems like they are saying “well we want to do what WE want, so we will find some other denomination (or none at all) that will let us”. This is really, really on my nerves. It feels like I don’t have a church anymore! What do you guys (and gals) think?
[/quote]

They are bringing up old heresies which were condemned in the fourth century. No one is to be baptized twice, it is a sacrelige.

The fact that they are breaking away fits with the protestant view that there is no authority on earth to guide the people. It is causing Christianity to continue to splinter. Just because they disagree, and they want to do things how they want, they are breaking away.


#13

[quote=Hugh Betcha]No offense taken! One of the things that is most appealing to me right now about Catholics is their doctrine. We DO beleive this and DONT believe that. Not all the gray area garbage that seems to be so prevalent in protestant churces. I really like the fact that everything is spelled out in black and white, and has been for 2000 years. It’s just hard for me right now, I was raised a protestant, and some of this is tough to get your head around.
[/quote]

You should attend the mass sometime. That is a good way to learn about Catholicism.

Also, if you stay here long enough you will learn alot about the faith.


#14

[quote=Thal59]The question came up; was Jesus divine? Fortunately for Jesus, the vote was something like 82-18 in His favor. But Marcus commented… do we have the right to vote truths in and out of the faith? What would happen in a generation or two should that same question be voted upon and the results were 52-48 against the Lord’s divinity? Would the Lutheran church officially proclaim that Jesus was not divine?
[/quote]

Wow! Anyone know where I can find a transcript (or other reference link) of that program?


#15

Sadly this isn’t a problem unique to your church. This is a standard feature of Protestantism by definition. How do you think Luther started his own denomination?

I will pray for you that you can receive the guidance you need, and I sincerely hope that you are led to the Catholic Church. God’s Will be done in all things! :blessyou:


#16

I am praying for you Hugh. You are a good man. I can tell you are sincere in your Faith.

I don’t want to knock you or your faith… but, as soon as I read your post… I kind of wondered “what” bothered you. Because, in protestantism that is what one CAN do. That is… go start a new church whenever they want to change according to THEIR truth.

I highly suggest you to go out and buy a book on the Catholic Faith regarding truth, doctorine, and unity. You may want to start with the Catechism of the Catholic Church. With this… you can look in the index and go right to your questions.

Hang in there.


#17

That is a good example of one problem with Sola Scriptura, it turns Christianity into a ‘book religion’ subject to anybody’s interpretation, with an equal amount of splintering.

The Magisterium of the Catholic Church is a wonderful concept and behooves one to become Catholic (among thousands of other reasons).


#18

“For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths” (2 Tim. 4:3–4).


#19

[quote=Hugh Betcha]OK, so I got a letter from my church today. Basically it says that they are moving away from the EPC (Evangelical Presbyterian Church) for the following reasons:

  1. They want the ability to re-baptize folks who already have been; ie someone who renews thier faith and wants another baptism. Currently they are not allowed to do so.

  2. They want non-EPC ordained pastors to be allowed to serve the Lord’s supper.

Does this bother you as much as me?! It almost seems like they are saying “well we want to do what WE want, so we will find some other denomination (or none at all) that will let us”. This is really, really on my nerves. It feels like I don’t have a church anymore! What do you guys (and gals) think?
[/quote]

What a blessing! Rarely do churches do things so ridiculous and indicative of the fact that they haven’t a clue. In fact it’s so ridiculous that I’m tempted to believe your making it up. But here you have your church saying and doing just that. Good time for you to ask Jesus, "Is this really part of your game plan? Churches splitting apart over doctrine? Why does this have to keep happening? Is this what you meant when you said you would build your Church on “this rock”? The answer won’t be ambiguous.

Phil


#20

Hugh,

You will be in my prayers. Take your time, the Holy Spirit will guide you where he wants you to go, (I think he already is) I have found that the realisations that you are now coming to are what often begins a journey home to Catholicism.

You might go back and fourth, but be patient, you will come to the truth it just takes time. Don’t be afraid to ask if you have questions there are many people here who would love to answer than, and they are very knowledgeable. Also I would suggest browsing through the spiritual forum also, if you havn’t already, the main point of Catholicism is not the details as much as the spiritual experience and the way we live. We must learn, and question, but the ultimate point is how we relate to God. Try out the many treasures of the Catholic faith, pray the Rosary, try a novena, etc. You don’t have to pray many of them, in fact it is usually recommended that you choose one or maybe two, but you can try one for a week, and then something else. I recommend the Rosary, I have recently discovered what a treasure it is although I am a cradle Catholic.

Learn from, and possibly with your fiancee, this could deepen your faith, and your love for each other.


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