I don't understand this patriotic thing


#1

Why should I be patriotic for my country? I do not understand why I should feel love for a land that's mostly infested with disease, sin, idolatry, persecution, and poverty. I also want to know how Americans can feel love for their country which is filled with lust, adultery, sodomy, and abortion. Is it necessary to support one's country, as a Catholic? I always felt that all Catholics should burn down every flag in the world and refuse to be owned by 'America' or 'France' or 'Britain' or 'Pakistan' or 'India' and only take on the name of Christ and not the name of the country that one happens to be living in. I also want to know.. I read stuff online about how Americans hate that their jobs are being outsourced to other countries, but why would a Catholic be against that? It seems from what I can tell that even poor Americans are richer than the poor in third-world countries and does it bite you if there's an opportunity for people in other countries being helped?


#2

Let the Bible answer this question...

Romans 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

1 Peter 2:13 Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, 14 or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. 15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. 16 Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. 17 Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

Even an evil government is there for the restriction of evil, and so is God's tool. Recall the massive and widespread chaos and murder that goes unchecked when government collapses such as the French Revolution, the slaughter in Serbia/Albania, or in Rwanda, etc. Government, even a wicked government, restricts evil and makes possible the spread of the Gospel.

Remember that the Emperor that Paul and Peter are asking you to honor was Nero who later took both of their lives. So a rabid patriotism that overthrows the rule of God is certainly wrong. However honoring the government by praying for our leaders and praying that God's peace will be on us so that we may live lives that spread the Gospel and God's love to our fellow men is completely appropriate.

God Bless


#3

I can love my country, but not like it. And the only thing worth hating is sin.


#4

One of the basic beliefs in Catholic Social Thought is each person’s right to work. There is a dignity in working to provide for yourself and your family. Closely associated with this is the concept of paying a person a wage that allows the person to properly support the family who depends upon them.

It is wrong for a business to deprive an employee of a job and give it to someone else without a just reason for doing so. Just reasons may include misconduct of the employee, or a failing economic situation at the business, but do not include “the business will make more profit this way.” This last reason is typically what corporations use to “justify” outsourcing of positions.


#5

Well you can look at the good or look at the bad. I refuse to identify being an "American" only with corruption and sin. Why define a thing by the worst examples? We don't want people to do that with the Church.

There is corruption and sin everywhere you go. There are also examples of goodness and sanctity. I can be proud of the good without condoning the bad.


#6

I love the freedom it gives me and I venerate those who died for it.
Nationalism, and maybe what is what you really have a problem with, has led to wars and hatred.

What we all really want is the common good and that is the responsibility of each government.


#7

Personally, I hope for the day when national sovereignty, like the tribe and city-state, will be set aside; although I know I will be in Purgatory long before then.

On the other hand, I deeply admire the USA for what it has achieved, the human excellence it once fostered, and the height of human freedom it has nurtured. There are also things about it that I do not agree with, like the Roe V Wade decision, the modern "in your face" aggressive position, and the mass obsession with firearms.

But in a nation, as with a family, you take the good with the bad.

God never intended the human being to be autonomous. We were made to be in community. In the world since 1900, that means under a national sovereignty. So to that extent, "patriotism" is the will of God.

ICXC NIKA


#8

It is perfectly natural for a worker to be upset about offshoring. Human beings need work in order to provide for self and family. Losing one's job is a serious trial. Particularly since, in the case of offshoring, there will be fewer if any jobs remaining in the same industry.

When someone is faced with the prospect of becoming poor, the possibility that someone else who is poor might be helped is no consolation. This is not a national issue, but a human one.

ICXC NIKA


#9

Maybe I like living in a country that I can point out its faults and try to fix them then in a country that will either inprision or kill you for saying anything 'bad' about it.:shrug:


#10

Acworth, Georgia isn't infested with disease, sin, idolatry, persecution, poverty, sodomy, and abortion.

I'm sure we have our fair share of lust, and I guess as much adultuery as any other suburban American town, but all things considered, the town I live in is a pretty God-fearing place. That's one of the reasons why I moved here.

-Tim-


#11

[quote="bogeydogg, post:2, topic:313930"]
Let the Bible answer this question...

Romans 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

1 Peter 2:13 Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, 14 or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. 15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. 16 Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. 17 Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

Even an evil government is there for the restriction of evil, and so is God's tool. Recall the massive and widespread chaos and murder that goes unchecked when government collapses such as the French Revolution, the slaughter in Serbia/Albania, or in Rwanda, etc. Government, even a wicked government, restricts evil and makes possible the spread of the Gospel.

Remember that the Emperor that Paul and Peter are asking you to honor was Nero who later took both of their lives. So a rabid patriotism that overthrows the rule of God is certainly wrong. However honoring the government by praying for our leaders and praying that God's peace will be on us so that we may live lives that spread the Gospel and God's love to our fellow men is completely appropriate.

God Bless

[/quote]

Thank you for this insight. I needed it.

-Mike


#12

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