I felt so ignorant!


#1

Yesterday, I had a husband and wife ring my door bell. I answered the door. I was in the middle of cleaning, but they were Baptist and wanted only a “few minutes” to ask me some questions. They took out the paper and started to ask me the questions. It was a little warm. I live in Florida, even though today is cold, so I invited them into the house to sit down. At first, there was no problem for the wife just asked me the question from the paper and they were simple like: “What is repentance?” “If you were to die, would you go to heaven or hell?” “What does it mean to be a Christian?” and so on. But as I answered some of those, it came apparent to them that I was a Catholic. They didn’t say much in the beginning, but as we got more into the discussion, the husband did most of the talking and asked me where in the Bible is purgatory, where is the claim that Mary is a Virgin after Jesus’ birth. Where in the Bible does it state that Peter is our first pope and that our Church was instituted by Christ himself. Every answer I gave them, they refuted. My husband was asleep and would have done a better job of it. I realized that I could not quote the Bible as they did. I could not defend my beautiful Catholic faith and if upset me. The last words of this Baptist man were: “We can’t both be right and on judgment day when you die, you will be surprised and we be going to hell. Repent and find out the truth before it is to late.” He left after those words. I could not believe it.

I did learn several things. I need to learn more on my faith. I think it is called apologetics and I need to learn not to be so nice to people when they end with a statement like this man did and speak up and say something back like I wanted to. I did tell him in the course of our conversation while we were sitting that we differed in our opinion in our beliefs and let us leave it at that. He was not even open to listening to Scott Hahn who only uses the Bible. He said he would not listen to him. He has heard of him. I just prayed for them that night. I don’t know why all my experience with Baptist has been so bad. In my 20’s, I met a Baptist deacon and it was his job to take me out of the Catholic church. He told me I was on my way to hell. I did tell this man yesterday that he used the Bible to quote this and that, and yet he was judging me and did not know me.

I don’t know why, but I feel so inadequate and feel so bad. I am not angry, just sad at myself. I wish I could have spoke out more. :blush:


#2

How to respond to missionaries: “I’m Catholic.”

It’ll get them out of your hair. But if you want a discussion, you can say, “I’m Catholic. I’d be happy to discuss such and such with you. Would you care to come inside?”

You can even offer them a drink. Be sure to give God thanks for charity, by the way. He is the Source and Summit of Goodness.

As for apologetics, you start at reason and build up from there. You can learn the faith by reading Church documents, the writings of the Fathers, and the Bible. It’s tough work, but if God is calling you to be an apologetic, you’ll do it, by God’s grace.


#3

You don’t have to memorize the verses like they do. This is what you need – a piece of paper, with scripture on both sides, that has references to the commonly attacked Catholic doctrines and their refutations, which passages they were.

Also, when passages are used against you, you need to go to the scripture with them in the actual book, quote it back in context and explain how they got it wrong – that requires a deeper understanding but, God’s grace will help because even if you do not have it, it may come to you at the moment of challenge because every single passage they use to attack the Church actually is against what they say. :slight_smile:

So have your own Bible, and have a piece of paper stuck in it covering all the commonly challenged doctrines and you’ll be ready to beat them in a second.

The one I keep in my Bible is this:

aquinasandmore.com/index.cfm/title/San-Juan-Catholic-Seminars/FuseAction/store.PublisherSearchResults/Publisher/238/

I’d scan you a copy but my scanner is not up, if you urgently need it because you expect they’ll be back I’ll put it all back together again – otherwise I suggest you buy it. One of the best things I ever came across. Truly priceless.

You can hold your own with just about any of the door to doors with this, though it won’t help you if some JW’s come up and start bashing Catholic history, then you have to learn the techniques and history for dealing with that which take time – best to go on the offense on those cases btw, and point out JW flaws, and ask what they would do if the JWs did X or Y, and do they claim to be immune to it, etc.


#4

I did tell him in the course of our conversation while we were sitting that we differed in our opinion in our beliefs and let us leave it at that.

If you are starting to feel uncomfortable and think you’re not answering their questions very well, go ahead and fall back on this.

But I urge you to avoid doing so if you can. This tells them you don’t really care (or possibly believe) in Ultimate Truth, which of course isn’t true. This will increase their attack, if nothign else. I would recommend (humbly, as I’ve never had Baptists come to my door) that instead you say “You know, I’m not sure about that, but if you give me time to study the issue further I could have an answer for you next time.”

The one I keep in my Bible is this:

aquinasandmore.com/index…Publisher/238/

Shin, I WANT one! I was trying to make this myself, but it’s hard tracking down all those verses. I’ll have to order one.

One thing I do (I learned from a woman who teaches CCD at Church) is to highlight different topics in my Bible using different colors. All passages about Mary, for example, are in pink. Those things about the heirarchy are in blue and the Sacraments are all in green.


#5

You will love this one, it is priceless. If/When you get it, you’ll know – and too I hope let everyone who could know about it know about it. It needs to find its way into as many Catholic Bibles as possible. I keep a photocopy (unlaminated so it can fold) up in the cover, and a spare in case I lose it.


#6

I think I have this one, or my dh has it. I found it of course after they left. But the one think they kept harping on was that Mary was not a Virgin and I don’t see that on the list. They did question tradition and I see that one and Peter as the first Pope and that is also on this list and Bible alone. Oh, how I wish I found this when they were here. They also mentioned Good works and even quoted the Catechism on how we need good works in order to get to heaven. I forget now the number of the catechism they gave me but it was in the 1400’s. I have Good Works also on this Bible sheet.

I can scan this for anyone who wants it, but I don’t know how to do it and place it on this thread.:eek: If you tell me how to do it, I will do it for you. It has two pages and it has small print on both sides. Let me know how.

Thanks, everyone for your words. I did do my best and tried and I think you are all right that they did not really know what our Church really teaches. They just quoted certain things out of context and when I tried to refute it, they came back with something else. I do want to tell you of one to see how you all would have answered.

I will address it in the next post.


#7

Scripture is infalliable because it was listed at the Synod of Hippo chaired by St. Augustine in the 300A.D.s and then later listed and disputed at the Synod of Rome and Synod of Carthage. However, during the Council of Trent during the Protestant Reformation it was first declared and made infalliable. Here is a link to the Council of Trent declaration that makes it infalliable. ewtn.com/library/councils/trent4.htm

If it is the Magisterium that tells us that Scripture is infalliable and rejects other Scriptures that propose to be true then how can we then reject the Magisterium and still lay claim to our belief in Scripture as infalliable. I understand the Magisterium to be a continuation of the Church that Christ established chaired by Peter that he said would not fail, which is what gave it the authority to declare something infalliable or not, such as Scripture.

The vicar of Christ is believed to be established from the living Church that Christ founded. We trace him directly to Peter - this means that just like a new apostle was chosen to replace Judas, with every death of the Bishop of Rome, Peter, a new Pope has been chosen from the earliest of times to replace the old Pope. The Pope leads the Church and is the one who has the moral authority to declare something like Scripture infalliable or not. He has the authority to choose the canon of Scripture and refute such as the Gospel of Peter or Gospel of Mary Magdalene.

The fact that there are disputes between Protestants and Catholics may just be an accumulation of division that we inherit because of people who left the Church that Christ established. Luther established a new Church and dispute certain books. He tried to remove Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelations. These books are called Luther’s Antilegomena and stated that Revelation is “neither apostolic nor prophetic” and stated that “Christ is neither taught nor known in it.” Anglicans established a new Church when they didn’t like the rules on divorce in England. Mormons established a new Church. Seventh Day Adventists established a new Church. Muslims established a new Church. Now the gay bishop is establishing a new Church, splitting the Anglican church even further. Here is a papal timeline. faithfirst.com/html/popeJohn/timeline/timeline.html We have His Holiness St. Peter ca. 64, His Holiness St. Linus 67-76, His Holiness St. Anacletus (Cletus), 76-88, His Holiness St. Clement I, 88-97, His Holiness St. Evaristus, 97-105 and so on to His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI

**Baptists are included in this group of people who split from the Church that Christ established. I strongly suspect that they come from the Anabaptists. **


#8

I mentioned how Peter was our first Pope and our Catholic Church was instituted by Christ Himself for they asked me why I belonged to the Catholic Church. I mentioned Matthew 16:18 and sure enough they opened their Bibles to that verse and said that the word “church” did not mean a building but the Body of Christ. He mentioned how in another part of the Bible and I am familiar with it, but I can’t remember the book and verse where it talks about how we are many parts of the Body of Christ with different functions. They said that is what that part of Mt.16 was talking about.

How would you have responsed to that? I did not know how to respond. I know what I believe but I did not know how to express it in order for them to believe it.:shrug:


#9

These Baptist denied that Peter was the first Pope. They deny that Catholics were the first Christians at all.


#10

Who do they say were the first Christians then? Where do they get Scripture from if it isn’t from the Catholic Church? How did they come to be Baptists? Did they split from the Anabaptists, that were created during the Reformation in a split from the Catholic Church?


#11

In order to refute their lies you must be well versed in your faith!

That requires hard work, reading the Holy Scriptures daily and understanding Jesus’ teachings.

Jesus gave us His Holy Catholic Church and the Apostles and their successors to continue the teaching of His Truth, complete and without error, for all time.

Ignorance is no excuse in this modern world with the internet. You are on CA so you have access to the many tracts dealing with the lies and misunderstandings that these Christian brothers are spreading in error.

First, if you are not up to speed, do not engage in debate. While they may be well intentioned, they are spreading lies and untruths which could shake the faith of weak Catholics.

Read the Holy Scriptures daily, the monthly Magnificat magazine is a great resource as it gives the daily Mass readings, the Holy Mass and reflections.

Always have materials such as the Catholic Answers pamphlet “Pillar of Fire Pillar of Truth” handy to give them. They usually come in pairs to help each other and to be sure that they don’t stray from their propaganda.

BE SURE TO MENTION THE CATHOLIC ANSWERS WEBSITE, www.catholic.com so they can go and find the Truth of Jesus in private, without the oppression of their misguided brothers.

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

Mark


#12

They’re misleading you about what YOU believe. When Christ calls peter the rock and states that the church will be built on him, Christ is certainly NOT refering to a physical building either. What Christ IS clearly stating is that the body of the church will be built on the rock, the office of Peter and the apostolic succession that flows forth from that (apostolic succession is addressed in the book of acts).

They are also correct that the church is a body with many different functions. However, that foundational rock upon which the entire building rests is Peter and the apostles, with Peter being first among them. Basically, NOTHING they said in any way refuted what you told them. They just used fancy wording to try and confuzzle you.

Throw it back at them. Ask them directly what does the statement “YOU ARE ROCK AND ON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH” mean? If they say peter’s faith, reference that that would be a horrible idea to build the church on since Peter’s faith denied Christ three times, and the entire gospel of Mark shows how flawed the faith of the apostles was at times. Why would Christ build His church on such a flawed foundation?

If they say it was on Christ Himself, and not on Peter, point out that that isn’t possible. Christ is referred to as the CORNERSTONE. In ancient architecture, this is different from the sum foundation of the structure, so that is an exclusive statement.

And then explain to them that only one possibility exists: that the ROCK that Jesus is referring to is clearly and without any sort of linguistic hopscotch that they seem to be trying to use is PETER. That it is the office of the pope, independent of the fallability of the man and sealed with the magisterial authority of the Holy Spirit which can be the ONLY thing Christ is referencing.

By the way, if someone EVER told me I was going to be surprised and go to hell on the day I die, I would walk directly to the door, open it, and clearly state “It is a sin of pride that any man should presume to displace God as the only judge of salvation towards the immortal souls of men. Your statement has shown that not only is there a total lack of Christian charity and love in you, but also that you go so far as to blaspheme truth by seeking to supplant God’s role under my own roof. Your wife is not guilty of your sin, she may return, but you will NOT be allowed to step foot within this LOYAL christian household again until you have repented your pride and returned to Christ’s Church, the Holy CATHOLIC church. I will pray for you that you find the peace and love to release your hateful pride, but for now, you will excuse yourself and take your blasphemy from my house.”

Give all that to them in a tone of righteous indignation. The man tried to state that he can displace God right there in your own home, after all. There is no reason for you to entertain guests who are blasphemers and have no christian charity within their hearts. Such people are gravely in need of intervention of their guardian angels to steer them out of hate.


#13

If you need some inspiration read through the following thread:

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=286881&highlight=My+first+battering+in

So dive in and educate yourself a bit more.

God bless


#14

((((((nana3))))…you weren’t ignorant- you were ambushed :eek: … you will never get through to them-unless you can quote chapter and verse because that’s the only measure they have for you knowing God-anything beyond that will be seen as Satan’s lies-just don’t let them in-there is no reason in the world in this day and age that you should let two strangers into your home at their request-stand at the door,give them their “few minutes”…thank them for their time and when they go to give you their literature tell them no thank you,you are Catholic and will pray for them-and then close the door…do not engage them-they try to anger you so you get mad at them-in that way they see themselves as persecuted like Jesus …I lived next door to a Baptist minister and his family when my son was little- their kids played with him…the children were polite to me- but were telling him that his records were the devils music(although they were the ones that wanted to play them…LOL) and one day my son was at another neighbors house while I was at work and they-the Parents- LIED to the sitter and took him to their Bible camp!-…you see-it seems that to them-utilizing the devils ways to save souls from him-is ok…so-just be polite and shut the door and pray for them-but don’t let them in or they’ll be back again and again…and as for the Baptist minister and his wife- they moved soon after- but not before they were introduced to my version of hell and who was going there…:smiley:


#15

Can you send me a copy to Forgiveall@catholic.org


#16

When you click ‘post reply’ there is a button ‘manage attachments’.

You can then click ‘browse’ and select the picture files your scanner made on your computer, wherever they are, desktop, documents folder, whatnot. :slight_smile:

I do see a section for Mary on the one I have, if it is the same as the one you do.


#17

Mark,
I do read the Bible every day. I do not have it memorized. I do not have verses in different parts memorized. When they mentioned a verse, I knew what they were talking about and was familiar with it for I have read it before. But reading the Bible is not enough. I took only one year of Theology at the Franciscan University of Steubenville and it can get complicated understanding what is meant in a verse in the Bible. You can’t just take a verse, but understand the whole context and also the history of it also, especially if there is reference to it in the Old Testament. Also knowing Greek and Hebrew would help too. All that I do not know for I did not complete my master’s degree due to my back disablities. It was all interesting, but I had to quit after the first two semesters. So it is not that I wanted to engage in debate. I thought I was simply answering some questions. They started the debate. I was trying to defend the Catholic Church and did the best I could. In a way, I am glad it happened for it showed me that they were the ones, mostly the husband, who did not act very Christian like, and that I need to learn more on my Catholic faith, or should I say I need to memorize the key things they have a problem with like purgatory, the papacy and Mary and tradition.

As far as mentioning the Catholic Answer website, that would not have worked with these people for they would not go to it. They would not listen to anything except the Bible. They made it clear that they only source for knowledge and information would come from the Bible only.


#18

aawww, I wish I was there, I would’ve defended my sister in the Faith, and eaten those Baptists up :smiley:


#19

I was going to copy this and had it all scanned when my dh noticed that this has a copyright. It has on the bottom, “No reproduction in any form. All rights reserved.”

Sorry guys. To order, call 505-327-5343 or fax 505-9554 and it is called the Catholic Verse Finder by San Juan Catholic Seminars. I think my dh got his at Leaflet Missals at www.leafletmissal.com.


#20

I don’t understand the point of having these discussions with door-to-door people. If I decide to talk to them, it’s not because I’m going to change my faith in catholicism. Their intentions are to convert me. My intentions would be to convert them. If neither one of us is truly willing to listen to the other, then what’s the point?


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