I Hate Liberalism!


#1

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I hope I can put this in proper words and express myself as I need to. I recently posted on here about my time as a Postulant in a Religious Order in Spain which is going down the Liberal route and is sending all their students (for Priestly studies) to one of the most liberal faculties in the country- a fact of which I was unaware of when I entered, I entered due to a love and great enthusiasm for the charisma of the Order.

I tried for 5 months to change my life and prepare to dedicate it to Our Lord as a Holy Religious but I was shocked to find and unable to adjust to the disgusting (word I wish to use) lack of respect and understanding of the Sacraments and the Liturgy, I was subjected to Masses where the Priest didn’t use the Missal, and said whatever he thought felt moved to- in some cases used no vestments (and thought nothing of it) and although I didn’t attend any I know they have Masses sitting around a table, on the floor and do ridiculous and sacrilegious things- they were quite happy to tell everyone else what was wrong with the Church, I was the only one in the community against the idea of women Priests etc. and was pretty much “branded” for it and made to feel uncomfortable in a supposedly Catholic environment.

I was shocked to hear the stuff coming out of the mouths of my “brothers” and fellow students, especially in the faculty where I was known as a “Lefebvrist” purely because I believed and wanted to remain a faithful Catholic. I was in total crisis and torment for alot of that time, I tried to reconcile myself to their ways but was unable to do it and then when I eventually got up the courage to leave (with all the implications and trouble it would cause) I asked to speak to the master of Postulants and confided in him, he was so cruel and unkind to me that I had no second thoughts about leaving and I left on my own accord the very same day. I don’t want to give the wrong impression, I did certainly learn during this time and I discovered how much I wish to be faithful to the Church and her teachings, I got to know myself better, my weakness and problems etc. however I have been left after my experience with a great Hatred for Liberalism, I was so openly exposed to it and it went against all I believed and held dear- I just hate it, I do not hate any individual person (in case anyone thinks that) and I am not full of anger at anyone or anything like that but I really now understand the danger of liberalism and how it is infesting our Holy Church, all these people who were in my classes are the future of the Church and the Priesthood and they are rotten to the core with liberalism.

I am now working in a parish in my own country and am in contact with the Vocations Director of my local Diocese who had done research into the Faculty where I was sent to study and told me I did the right thing, he said it is awful and made me feel a lot better when I met with him recently. I am now in the process in time of entering a more Traditional and Conservative Order, I have been strengthened by my experience and don’t care if anyone is going to be negative or tell me I did the wrong thing but I love to share and speak with fellow Catholics on this site and feel a sense of comfort in it. I just want people to know the dangers of Liberalism and to encourage people to stay away from it and not get involved in anything which diverts from Our Holy Church…I am not talking about Medjugorje, I am talking about the real problems- we really need to pray for the Conversion of sinners and pray for more Holy and devout Priests.

I am coming to terms with what happened to me but it really bothers me and I am struggling. Before I went there I had a very “innocent” and perhaps “ignorant” view that I was a Catholic belonging to a totally universal Church where everyone believed and thought the same thing (probably due to my traditional formation) but I am ashamed that some of these people would claim to be Roman Catholics. Pope Francis is wonderful and he is not the Liberal so many people think he is!!!


#2

I agree that you did the right thing in leaving. And it’s nice to know that you really learned from the experience. If you do become a priest, let the experience lead you to preach against liberalism in the Church. I’m sure that many people will be lured to think it’s ok because they want to see changes in the Church that aren’t really healthy. There’s a lot more I’d like to say, but I’d probably end up repeating myself or turning into nonsense. Be bold here. Liberalism has no place in the Church.


#3

I saw Pope Benedict as a centre point between what we call “liberal” and “conservative” Catholics. Reading his extensive writings might help you. The easiest way to start is by reading his body of work, as pope. You can access these writings and homilies on the Vatican site.


#4

Catholicism in Spain is but a shadow of its former self. My ex-fiancée lives just outside Barcelona, in Catalonia, where the beautiful Sagrada Familia is being built. She is a convert to the Catholic faith, yet she thinks nothing of criticizing the Church, priests, bishops, Pope Benedict XVI, and especially the teachings on sexuality, which wrenched us apart after a short courtship. She recently shared a video about Sister Teresa Forcades, a Catalonian religious who is worthy of membership in the LCWR, who supports myriad liberal causes and is a radical feminist. My ex-fiancée’s priests are all liberal and permissive and they seem to have the support of their bishop in this kind of disobedience and unbelief and rebellion. I am sure it is no different anywhere else in Spain and for that matter, Europe as a whole.

The whole continent is one of lost faith, where Christianity remains as a mere cultural phenomenon, where there is growing support for dissent such as communion for the “remarried” and women’s ordination and the Culture of Death. The growing “unbaptism” movement is yet another symptom of the paganization of Europe. It is really in a sorry state and they are desperately in need of our prayers. The whole continent will be overtaken by Muslims who immigrate and reproduce without the constraints of contraception and abortion that native Europeans are under.


#5

I hate liberalism as well.

However, let’s be clear there are two types of liberalism.

Liberalism with doctrine is just pure heresy. These people are not Catholics even if they say they are.

Liberalism with practices and such are different. While I don’t like modern practices, as long as they are allowed by the Church we must at least tolerate them.


#6

Fraz, my heart goes out to you. They used to do the same thing to men and women in the eighties when I was trying my vocation out. At the time I was very naive of everything that had gone on in the Church (no internet back then), and I was made to feel that there was something very wrong with me because I didn’t like the upheaval in the Church.

Don’t give up!


#7

I’m not sure I understand it when you say “I hate liberalism”.

I see you had a bad experience at a Religious Order where they don’t follow the rituals as you know it, or they don’t all agree with Catholic doctrine (such as being open to the idea of female priests).
(Actually, they are not such a small group. According to polls, there are a lot of Catholics in the US who think females should be priests. But let’s not digress…)

But does this mean you must hate “liberalism” in general, across the board?

Here is the definition of “liberalism” from many encyclopedias:

Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally they support ideas such as free and fair elections, civil rights, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free trade, and private property.

I don’t think this is what you described.
What you describe are Catholics who have changed or are being flexible in their view and perception of the religion and it’s customs and beliefs–some are big ones, some are smaller details…
(If a priest doesn’t wear his vestments one or two times, is that so terrible? Perhaps there was a problem getting to them in time. Also, Jesus and his disciples wore simple toga-type garments–probably dusty and dirty from travels…surely Jesus will not mind if a priest is not wearing a splendid, decorated silk robe… but be more concerned about the priest’s intent and desire to do the mass).

Obviously, though, the way they were conducting themselves at this Religious Order was not for you and upset you very much you felt very hurt by it all, I’m sorry to hear that.
It is better for you to be at a place more suited to you, where you will feel more comfortable…and the others think and feel and act as you do.

But back to the point about liberalism. Perhaps it doesn’t work in the paradigm of the Catholic church, but the idea of liberalism is very good in many other areas. So no need to hate it on the whole.

.


#8

That’s not the definition of ‘liberalism’ as practiced. That makes it sound warm and fuzzy. Here it means pro-abortion, homosexual ‘weddings,’ atheism, and marxism.

I’ve heard priests play fast and loose with the liturgy in the name of ‘tolerance.’ Dispense as written.


#9

Sailor, Marxism died a long time ago, even before the Bolsheviks won the revolution, most of marx’s teachings had been jettisoned. I hope this does not go too off topic, but since you list your religion as being anti-Marxist, I’m very interested to read what is your understanding of Marxism.


#10

You took the words right from my mouth. :slight_smile:

To the OP: I’m sorry that you had to go through such an experience as that. In recent decades, European countries which had as their glory Catholicism (Spain, Portugal, France, Italy, and sigh Ireland) have become nominally Catholic at best, with heresy & malpractice running rampant within their borders. Please, if you still feel called to religious life, don’t give up. I’ll pray for you. :thumbsup:


#11

It’s amusing that some folks think coastal North American and Western Europe are the future. :o

This century will be their last hurrah.


#12

Elizium, this is very sad to read.


#13

I can 100% relate to what you have written, it is all true- Spain is sadly really in crisis in this regard and the Church has become Liberal. Priests are either 100% liberal or 100% conservative and sadly it is the liberals in the majority and it is frightening! I know about the nun you speak of, Teresa Forcades is a really serious problem and the sad thing is that she has a huge amount of support from the people and is very popular, she is bad for the Church. Thanks for commenting!

However not all the Church in Europe is going this way. I am English, living in London and on the whole the Catholic Church in England is much more conservative and faithful to Church teachings than in some other European countries, but then we have always been persecuted here (until the 1800s it was illegal to be a Catholic here) and we maybe have held on to the faith in ways that other countries have never had to and it is rooted in today’s practice and living of the faith.


#14

Yes! You are very right and totally understand me in what I was saying. The previous poster perhaps didn’t get me, I know their comment was well intended and I didn’t write everything but all these liberal views and teachings are the problem!


#15

Thanks for commenting and God Bless you, I do see what you are saying and you have point in it but I am afraid it goes much deeper, of course it is not “evil” for a Priest not to wear Vestments when he says Mass etc. but that does not make it okay or good- these “small” things lead to bigger things and I personally believe as do the majority of good Catholic people who commented on my post that these are big and serious problems which lead to greater issues and abuses. I think that our friend who commented directly after you has put it perfectly and I couldn’t put it into better words myself!


#16

When you say “here”…do you mean here as in this country? Or here as in this forum?

Catholics may have their own definition of liberalism that I don’t know about… but…as for the official dictionary meaning, Merriam-Webster has it as:
“…belief in the value of social and political change in order to achieve progress”
(and it goes on in more detail about that…)

What you are describing are for sure beliefs that don’t jive with the Catholic church. So…does a Catholic call anything that goes against doctrine “liberalism”?
That would be…a mis-use of the word, no?
(why wouldn’t it just be considered “against doctrine”?)
There are many people who would not consider your list above as “liberalism”. For many, it means as the encyclopedia and dictionary says it does.

That is why I caution the OP to re-think his choice of word.
It sounds as though he is saying he “hates” it when Catholics have beliefs against doctrine.
To throw in the word “liberalism” into that…well…there’s just no need, and it’s not really accurate.

(Unless, as I said, there is a unique Catholic/religious meaning to the word that I don’t know about, that is not included in the meanings listed in the dictionary or encyclopedia…)

.


#17

Marxism is still alive. The most popular form in the west, being cultural marxism.


#18

As a neighbour of Spain, I recognize and feel this tendency, quite a bit. Conservative clergy isn’t the most welcome in parties and there’s only a single church, in Fatima, that gives TLM on Sundays. We’re the only capital in Europe that doesn’t go farther than the Novus Ordo, and that can give people an idea of what is going on here.

This has happened before in history, and we recovered in good strength from so many crisis for the last 2,000 years that I believe that the new youngsters will be more open to the old ways than their grandparents. It’s a matter of standing our ground, voicing our position with the Bible in one hand and the Church Fathers and Sacred Tradition on the other, and hope for the best from the Holy Spirit. Do not be afraid :thumbsup:


#19

Let all of us be careful that in trying to defend the church we don’t trample on her teachings. Many on this forum criticize “cafeteria Catholics” let us not do the same thing. The OP needed to express the trauma he experienced in Spain, which is fair that’s one of the reasons for having a forum. But that does not mean that the rest of us sitting in North America can sit in judgement of the Spanish church. They have bishops in Spain and it is their duty to lead and teach their flock.

938 The Bishops, established by the Holy Spirit, succeed the apostles. They are “the visible source and foundation of unity in their own particular Churches” (LG 23).

Whether we agree or not with what is happening in Spain, until their bishops, or the Pope begin to admonish people we must all assume that though their practices are not ours, they are in keeping of the teachings of the church.

St. Ignatius of Antioch is quoted in the catholic catechism, and we should read his words carefully.

Let all follow the bishop, as Jesus Christ follows his Father, and the college of presbyters as the apostles; respect the deacons as you do God’s law. Let no one do anything concerning the Church in separation from the bishop.429


#20

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