what should one say when someone attacks the CC because it has “funded and started wars in Gods name” and has “killed millions and millions of innocent people”? i was stumped.
So am I. I would ask to see the evidence of such an accusation.
Governments may have started/funded wars and killed millions of people (?) in God’s Name, and even using the name of the Catholic Church. But the Church?
Prove It!!! That’s what I’d be saying.
Even if it were so, it does not mean the Church is wrong, it would just mean that at various times, sinful men have managed to achieve positions of power in the Church. I would take that as a sign of the Church’s authenticity because those men have never managed to change one doctrine of the Faith, despite their sinfulness.
that’s what i thought. i’ll keep on replying what this guy tells me through out the following days.
“On this account I, or rather the Lord, beseech you as Christ’s heralds to publish this everywhere and to persuade all people of whatever rank, foot-soldiers and knights, poor and rich, to carry aid promptly to those Christians and to destroy that vile race from the lands of our friends. I say this to those who are present, it meant also for those who are absent. Moreover, Christ commands it.”
–Pope Urban II, as a rallying cry that started the First Crusade (from here)
As a personal note, I would agree that religions, and just about every one, have led millions of people to their deaths over differences in beliefs. What we really need, are more people of faith, whatever faith that may be, to stand up and say, “No more.”
Note: it’s always a bad idea to quote something out of context, then also provide a link to the original, longer document.
In the text of Pope Urban II speech, you can read that the crusade was in response to an invasion by Muslims in Christian lands. How about trying to be honest?
Where was I not being honest? Where did I put words or intentions in Urban’s mouth? I did not say he insisted on an unprovoked attack of a peaceful coexistence. The Pope made a call to arms and mobilized an army for one of the most infamous wars in human history. That’s all I was pointing out. Anything else you’re reading in that is your own imagination.
Do I think he should have let the Christians in the region be slaughtered? No, of course not, but aid need not come at the point of a sword. Of course, you do know what they say about 900 year old hindsight…
I am curious as to how else aid could have come to those defenceless people?
I’d say, good for Pope Urban.
In fact, they should have sent more soldiers, with sharper swords.
There is a reason “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord, thy God, in vain.” is one of the ten commandments.