Why do so many catholics state that lgbt members must be celibate. I know we cant produce kids but sterile people marry. They have fufilling sex lives and love lives. I dont see anyone on the steriles must be celibate train. This intrigues me because in many places lgbt can marry so why arent monogamous loving same sex relations tolerated while monogamous loving sterile relationships are?
The following example is to illustrate a point. Please do not take it as a direct comparison, or take offense. None is meant.
I’m going to guess you’d say that pedophiles should not have what they’d consider “fulfilling sex lives.” That is, they should not be free to carry out their “alternative” preferences. But why not?
(If you think that they *should *be able to do what they want, then possibly we don’t have enough frame of reference for a discussion.)
This is a fair (although potentially inflammatory) point. The natural (ordered) way of reproduction is with a male and a female. Generally, people (who are entering into a Sacramental marriage) don’t know that they are sterile and only discover it later. Much to their pain…
So people who are engaging in sexual activity that isn’t part of the natural order of reproduction cannot be seen to be in the same light as those that do but are unable to conceive.
Sterility is a defect of the fertility that would otherwise naturally be there.
Sexual relations between members of the same sex can never be fruitful (even if it may be emotionally fulfilling). Children will never result.
I know it can be difficult to understand in our culture that has long ago separated sex from its natural end (children).
I appreciate the respectful way you posed the question. Emotions can run very high when it comes to questions on any sexual issue. :o
Ad Orientem, I’m not 100% sure that analogy is as helpful as it could be.
I’d go more like this: Male-female complementarity (wow. Actually spelled that keyboard breaker!) can be seen in much the same vein as an electric plug and socket. When you insert a plug into the wall socket, you get electricity. Trying to hook up an extension-cord socket to the wall socket or trying to mate two plugs is an exercise doomed to failure… not only will you get no electricity, but you have to use extraordinary means to keep the two even together. In that case, they’re being used in a way that is completely unintended by the maker of either the appliance or the wall socket, to the futility (and possibly detriment) of both.
The sterile partner in a heterosexual marriage would be like a socket or plug that is defective. It may not, at this time, carry electricity through to the appliance, but there is nothing that says that is 100% permanent (just as a socket can possibly be repaired, there are new treatments that could be both licit and effective in restoring the partner’s fertility.) They’re still doing what they were designed for, it’s just that something went wrong in one or the other of them.
Does this help, OP?
Well, everyone needs to live a life of chastity. The celibacy applies to homosexual acts. GLBTQ folks in some cases will have heterosexual relationships even to the point of straight marriage.
I know we cant produce kids but sterile people marry.
In “The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage” Adam Kolasinski notes: “sterility tests would be too costly to the state”.
They have fufilling sex lives and love lives.
The numbers and testimonies say otherwise. A fulfilling sex life means having kids. Homosexual relationships are not capable of producing children without third party interference.
I dont see anyone on the steriles must be celibate train.
From the Catholic point of view, sterile couples still share in the conjugal act.
To transition to the secular argument, Adam Kolasinski notes that it is not worth the resources of the state to regulate sterile couples.
Furthermore, sterile couples are not asking for government subsidization and/or recognition.
This intrigues me because in many places lgbt can marry so why arent monogamous loving same sex relations tolerated while monogamous loving sterile relationships are?
“Many places” in the global sense is inaccurate. It is illegal in most places.
Emotions can run very high when it comes to questions on any sexual issue.
There is absolutely no room for emotions in logical arguments.
[quote=SuperLuigi;12187357"Many places" in the global sense is inaccurate. It is illegal in most places.
Well I am sorry I was stating inside the U.S. I should have clarified.
May I ask if one lgbt person is to have a romantic only (not sexual) relationship with the same sex is it a sin?:shrug:
I suppose it depends on what you mean by “romantic.” I think that all of us (lgbt or non-lgbt) need good same sex friendships. In our overly-sexualized culture, I think too often we have lost the sense of the need for good ol’ friendship.
Would such friendships involve hand-holding, kissing, cuddling, etc.? I don’t really do that with my friends. Though I am a hugger. :o Whether or not it would be objectively, intrinsically immoral to have that type of relationship with someone of the same sex, I would have to question the prudence of it. I would think it would make it harder, not easier, to live a chaste life.
Now I’m puzzling over the deep moral question of whether it’s morally wrong to plug an appliance into a defective outlet! :eek:
They must be celibate because the proper use of the sexual faculty is reserved to marriage, and because marriage is the union of a man and a woman.
I don’t think this is quite accurate. The Church holds that gay people will live rich and rewarding lives if they choose celibacy. It does not teach that lbgt Church members “must” be celibate, any more than it teaches that Church members “must” not curse or lie or masturbate.
In essence, what I’m saying is this:
(1) Any sin harms us. Non-marital sex is a sin, just like any other sin.
(2) The Church invites sinners – whatever their sin – to join us as full practicing members of the Church.
Peace and all Good!
Amen. St Aelread of Rievaulx’s Spiritual Friendship can be particularly helpful in helping form true Christian friendships. An introduction to it and an excerpt can be read online here:
When the woman is past menopause sterility is not unnatural. That said I agree that a sin is possible with anyone and that we must try not to commit any type of sin, especially mortal ones. My sinning is not the same one that many LGBT have a problem with but I am tempted by other types.