I have been challenged by sedevacantists..

Today I was in a conversation with Sedevacantists who claimed the modern day Roman Catholic Church is in a great apostasy because it was supposely taken over by freemasons at Vatican II. They also claimed that the Pope is an “anti pope” and that the thrid secret of Fatima warned the Church would fall. I was wondering, how do I respond to such nonsense? Please help, because this kind of makes me want to leave the Church due to fear as in if this was true.

God Bless,
BVMFatima

Ignore such falsehood, BVM. How to answer? If Jesus promised to be with us always and the gates of hell would not prevail against His Church, then either He lied and Satan prevailed, or the person spreading this nonsense is lying or terribly misinformed.

Sorry to say, I’ve seen such arguments and they have no basis in truth. Our faith and trust is in the promises of Jesus and in the Church He founded. If we doubt that, then surely our faith is not on rock, but on sand, and it will fall.

How do you respond? Well, since you just stated what they said is making you question the Church, I would advise you stay far away from the likes of them instead of trying to engage them in discussion.

Next, read Matthew 16:18. Why would you leave the Church because of some loonies that have decided they know better than the Pope and the Magisterium?

Pray that these deluded people will be delivered from their sin of pride, but stay away from them!!

When you hear words like “claimed” and “supposedly” in a comment against the Church then just ignore it. Its not up to you to refute baseless assertions.

I can assure you that all of these statements are absolutely false.

[LIST=1]
*]The Freemasons are rejected universally by the Catholic Church to this day, explictly. Catholic Answers even has a tract discussing why we cannot be freemasons. The Sedevacantists are wrong.
*]The Pope is not an anti-Pope, Pope Benedict XVI is the legitimate 265th Pontiff, Bishop of Rome. I would suggest you look up the YouTube account “Brett Fawcett”, as he discusses Sedevacantist arguments and refutes them.
*]An important Cardinal of the Church has written a book explaining the Third Secret of Fatima. This book is called “The Last Secret of Fatima.” I urge you to read it. This explains what the Third Secret was. The Sedevacantists are, again, wrong.
[/LIST]

Our Lady of Fatima constantly taught Catholics to trust the Bishops and follow them and their leadership, it is highly doubtful that the Third Secret would undo all of this. I can assure you that the Sedevacantists are wrong, that they defy the Scriptures and teach that the Catholic Church had the gates of Hades overcome it, whereas the Catholic Church teaches otherwise, the Gospel Truth.

Everyone has given such good answers, but might I add this – if there is someone out there who can tell you things that you cannot find truth in (such as what this person has told you) and yet this makes you consider leaving the Church, I strongly suggest you pray. Do not even entertain the idea of leaving the Church because of something even YOU are not sure is true or not! Praying for you.

I have a neighbor who is a fanatical Sedevacantist, a former Semanarian from Poland who, every time he sees me tells me how terrible the post V II Church is. According to him, the last legitimate Pope was Pius XII. Asking him if he and his co-horts know more about the Church than the College of Cardinals or the Pope, gets one no where and insures a tirade against the current “false mass”.
Finally, he went too far and got my goat, so I blasted him and told him in no uncertain terms that he sounded exactly like Martin Luther…and he and is friends are of the same heretical ilk. He actually paled when I told him that Luther’s original intention was to “Save the Church”.
He has stopped bothering me, in fact, he has stopped talking with me entirely, which is fine by me. It gets sooooo boring coping with fanatics.

Thank you all for the answers :slight_smile:

Cruxis, can you please give me a link to the YouTube channel? I cannot find it :frowning:

:rotfl: Oh boy, you have made a very good point :slight_smile:

God Bless,
BVMFatima

Was there a specific founder of Sedevacantistism?

They’re living in a fantasy world. Conservatives thought the liberals won the day at Vat II while the liberals thought the conservatives won. Meanwhile Vat II was an immense success of the Holy Spirits’ movement within the Church, but we won’t fully realize it and be able to correctly apply its directives for many years, as we gain benefit from the wisdom given the Church at that council…

there is a book called “More Catholic than the Pope” I can’t think of the author but it was written about these issues and SSBX. That might be a good resource for you.

You are going to leave the Church because of some stuff some people said?

Have you, yourself, ever read the Vatican 2 documents?

Do you think somehow the Masons invaded and controlled the election of the next Popes? How?

Do you imagine a bunch of old Cardinals were murdered and replaced by clones and took the places of enough Cardinals to elect an “anti-pope?”

Do you think, when you get away from these folks, that the whole idea is rather, well, silly?

Did you ever doubt before that Jesus Christ is present in the Eucharist?

Is this a good time to examine your faith and see what it is based on when some people talking can make you doubt it?

Other than how they made you feel (frightened) can you even make their argument from memory? Is it a clear and understandable thing you think should be obvious to anyone?

Or if I asked you to explain it exactly, would you have to give me a link to read something to convince me because, really, there are no sets of facts you can recall to back this up?

It’s a cult. Ignore and go to Mass.

It was written by Patrick Madrid on the Sspx

You have made good points. Thank you.

God Bless,
BVMFatima

Sedevacantism is a banned topic

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=486782

I was not aware, I apologize!

God Bless,
BVMFatima

I’m a Freemason, and I can promise you we didn’t take over the Catholic church - the only thing we take over is the local Red Robin after our meetings.

I’m hoping Jack Chick get a hold of this idea… The resulting tract would be even more crazy than regular.

No problem, just making note of it. :slight_smile:

Freemasonry is a banned topic as well
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=486782

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