I have true Peace


#1

Rom 5:1
"Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. "

As a former Catholic having been baptized and confirmed, my peace with God was conditional on my staying in a state of grace.

I have true Peace knowing my salvation is not of myself and has been secured by GOD.

(note, please dont flame me. I have been asked to create this new thread, and am not baiting anyone).


How do we know that the Church has infallible authority?
#2

Thank goodness Paul anticipated such people, fooled by a false assurance simply because it is more peaceful.

1 Cor. 10:12 “Therefore let any one who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.”

I pray that you do not fall.

And Jesus made clear

Romans 11:21 “For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.” (referring to already “saved” Christians)

I pray that you are not cut off from a branch you were grafted to.

Peace,
Michael


#3

[quote=kaycee]I have true Peace knowing my salvation is not of myself and has been secured by GOD.
[/quote]

This part is confusing me. If I am answering something you already know about, my apologies. Catholics also believe salvation comes from God and that it is not of “myself.” Some Non-Catholic Christians have been taught that Catholics believe that they work their way to Heaven. No, Catholics do not believe that. Catholics believe they are saved by grace and grace alone, which only comes from God.


#4

Umm, obviously. If you are in rebellion with God (ie being in a state of mortal sin) how can you be at peace with Him? Rebellion and peace don’t go together.


#5

Like others have said, Catholics agree that everything we have comes as an unmerited gift from God, including saving grace.

Grace, however, like any gift, can be rejected:

Assurance of Salvation?
Mt 7:21 - not everyone saying “Lord, Lord” will inherit
Mt 24:13 - those who persevere to the end will be saved
Rom 11:22 - remain in his kindness or you will be cut off
Phil 2:12 - work out your salvation in fear and trembling
1Cor 9:27 - drive body for fear of being disqualified
1Cor 10:11-12 - those thinking they are secure may fall
Gal 5:4 - separated from Christ, you’ve fallen from grace
2Tim 2:11-13 - must hold out to the end to reign with Christ
Hb 6:4-6 - describes sharers in Holy Spirit who then fall away
Heb 10:26-27 - if sin after receiving truth, judgment remains

source: geocities.com/thecatholicconvert/biblecheatsheet.html


#6

[quote=RedDeathsMask]This part is confusing me. If I am answering something you already know about, my apologies. Catholics also believe salvation comes from God and that it is not of “myself.” Some Non-Catholic Christians have been taught that Catholics believe that they work their way to Heaven. No, Catholics do not believe that. Catholics believe they are saved by grace and grace alone, which only comes from God.
[/quote]

Absolutely, all good things come from GOD! However to stay in a state of grace requires you to stay clear from mortal sin. That is work is it not?


#7

[quote=kaycee]That is work is it not?
[/quote]

You must *have *faith to be saved correct? That is a verb correct? It is something you must do. Faith is a work isn’t it?


#8

[quote=kaycee]Absolutely, all good things come from GOD! However to stay in a state of grace requires you to stay clear from mortal sin. That is work is it not?
[/quote]

Do you not believe in free will? Even Protestants who “are saved” sin. We can choose whether or not to love and obey God. If you choose to rebel against God, you can, but then your relationship with Him is hurt by your own choice.


#9

[quote=kaycee]Absolutely, all good things come from GOD! However to stay in a state of grace requires you to stay clear from mortal sin. That is work is it not?
[/quote]

No it is a decision,sort of like when you decide to accept Jesus is your Lord and Savior.When you commit a mortal sin you decide you are your own Lord:nope:


#10

KC << As a former Catholic having been baptized and confirmed, my peace with God was conditional on my staying in a state of grace. >>

KC << I have true Peace knowing my salvation is not of myself and has been secured by GOD. >>

Glad to hear it, but its bit simplistic. Its not Either / Or but Both / And. The security you have is not absolute since you are not GOD. You can have a “moral assurance” at best…you do not know the future, only GOD does. You do not know whether you will someday reject the faith, leave the faith, commit gross sins, or all three GOD forbid.

SUMMARY OF CATHOLIC TEACHING

  1. God knows all things, including those who will be saved (the Elect). 2. God’s foreknowledge does not destroy, but includes, free will. 3. God desires all men to be saved. 4. Jesus died to redeem all men. 5. God provides sufficient grace for all men to be saved. 6. Man, in the exercise of his free will, can accept or reject grace. 7. Those who accept grace are saved, or born-again. 8. Those who are born-again can fall away or fall into sin. 9. Not everyone who is saved will persevere in grace. 10. Those who do persevere are God’s elect. 11. Those who do not persevere, or who never accepted grace, are the reprobate. 12. Since we can always reject God in this life, we have no absolute assurance that we will persevere. 13. We can have a moral assurance of salvation if we maintain faith and keep God’s commandments (1 John 2:1-6; 3:19-23; 5:1-3,13).

WHY CALVINISM IS UNBIBLICAL

  1. No truly free will (denied by experience, and by the Gospel commands to repent, reform, obey the commandments, perform works of charity, and persevere to the end). 2. Thus no merit or demerit (denied by the whole Bible which testifies to the rewards and punishments God will apportion to all men according to their deeds, e.g. Matt 16:27; Rom 2:5-10; 2 Cor 5:10; Rev 22:11-12; etc). 3. God desires salvation only for the elect. (Denied by 1 Tim 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9; Matt 23:37; Ezek 18:23-32; 33:11; etc). 4. Christ died only for the elect. (Denied by John 3:16-17; 4:42; 1 John 2:2; 4:9-14; Rom 5:6,18; 2 Cor 5:14-15; 1 Tim 2:6; 4:10; etc). 5. God provides grace only to the elect. (Denied by Titus 2:11; John 1:9,16; Rom 2:4; etc). 6. God directly predetermines the salvation of the elect, including their good works. (This ignores any cooperation of the will with grace). 7. God directly predetermines the damnation of the reprobate, including their sins. (This is denied by James 1:13-14; Sirach 15:11-20; 1 Cor 10:13; and ignores any true resistance and rejection by the will). 8. The elect will be saved with no merit of their own. (This denies heavenly reward). 9. The reprobate will be damned for no fault of their own. (This denies true guilt and deserved punishment).

From this article on predestination by Jim Burnham

Also see this informative article by (James) Jimmy Akin on TULIP

Then at this point we get to question you on where you differ from classic five-point Calvinism, then the whole “sola scripura” and biblical interpretation and authority issue comes up… :thumbsup:

Phil P


#11

Even the act of “believing” in Christ is a work. Faith is giving yourself over to Him COMPLETLY:)


#12

[quote=kaycee]Absolutely, all good things come from GOD! However to stay in a state of grace requires you to stay clear from mortal sin. That is work is it not?
[/quote]

And you have a problem with works? Faith without works is dead.


#13

[quote=J.W.B.]Even the act of “believing” in Christ is a work. Faith is giving yourself over to Him COMPLETLY:)
[/quote]

:clapping: :amen:


#14

I want to clear something up: Did someone convince you that the Catholic church teaches that one must work one’s way into heaven? So now you believe that age old fairy tale that that’s what’s wrong with the Catholic church?

Surely you know better?? :yawn:


#15

Just read the whole book of James. It kinda clears this whole thing up.


#16

[quote=kaycee]Absolutely, all good things come from GOD! However to stay in a state of grace requires you to stay clear from mortal sin. That is work is it not?
[/quote]

This reminds me of an objection given to a Lutheran: “To say that all you need to do is have faith and you are saved means that once you have faith you can do what ever you want.” The Lutheran answered, “Once you believe in Christ with all your heart and soul, who loves you, then what would you want to do? Love him in return.”

AMEN to that! Now expanding on that, how do we show our love for Christ? We follow God’s commandments and do good works in the name of Christ Jesus; for faith without works is dead. Actually Lutherans and Catholics believe salvation is attained in the same way, the terminology is just different.


#17

[quote=michaelgazin]You must *have *faith to be saved correct? That is a verb correct? It is something you must do. Faith is a work isn’t it?
[/quote]

Actually Faith is a gift.
John 6:44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.” I was part of the “No one can” were’nt you?

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Peace


#18

[quote=kaycee]Actually Faith is a gift.
John 6:44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.” I was part of the “No one can” were’nt you?

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Peace
[/quote]

Ephesians speaks the truth. Catholics do not believe that they work to attain God’s grace. We do works because of God’s grace, which is a gift from him and him alone.


#19

[quote=kaycee] Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
[/quote]

Actually…this shows that grace is a gift, not faith. Faith is our response to the absolutely free gift of grace. If you would deny our freedom of response, you deny free will. Are you denying free will?

RyanL


#20

Well my eyelids are failing. Goodnight Kaycee, God Bless you and welcome to the Catholic Answers Forums.


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