I Kissed Dating Goodbye


#1

I'm 27 and married, but I have many Catholic friends that are still single. Some of them are taking up the dating approach from I Kissed Dating Goodbye.

When I researched more on the topic, I was quite surprised that this is a trend in conservative Catholic circles. From my own experience and based on being around many people from different areas of the dating process (single, dating, engaged, married), I really don't feel it is the recipe for a successful relationship and marriage.

Is this is a common trend in Catholic circles, or is it just overrepresented where I'm from? Is this being endorsed by the church at all?


#2

The Church has no official stance as to dating beyond general exhortations to date chastely and exercise prudence and discernment in our choices of who to date, bearing in mind the goal is to find a suitable partner for Christian marriage.

Never heard of the book before, and I am hesitant to comment much further without knowing more than can be found out about it online.

As an initial response, though, I would say this seems to be along the lines of Christ's exhortation to seek first the Kingdom of God and allow Him to supply our other necessities - romantic as well as material - as and how He wills.


#3

I would love to date....finding a single Catholic man is a problem...... :(


#4

I read the book many years ago.....what is it that you had a problem with?? I think it applies more to the younger crowd(high school-college age). I read this book when my daughter hit her teen years(she is 20 now) and I liked it. One of the things that I really liked about it was the description of how boys see things vs how girls see things(speaking about modesty in dress).

There is a Catholic book, I don't remember the exact title, Dating in an Oversexed World written by a Catholic priest. I think it is written for dating, as an adult. If I remember it also has planning a catholic wedding in it. Caution: There is some adult content and I would not recommend this to a younger person.

I read both of these 7-8 years ago....so my memory is a little fuzzy.


#5

My main concern that I had with the series is that it goes overboard in treating human emotions and sexuality as dangerous. I understand the desire to avoid sin, even in becoming too attached to one you are not married to. But we have our human desires, and I think the series teaches young adults to be afraid of their sexuality rather than learning to control it properly.

It was a real challenge for me because I didn't fit what they talked about as how girls saw things, or desire the things they said women desired. I remember it sort of pushed me to withdraw completely and try to stay "innocent" in a way that I now feel was inappropriate for a young adult, without really giving a good model of what a relationship looked like.


#6

I have read that book, too.

I don’t if it’s common. I know that courting is an attractive alternative. You get to meet her family and see her as someone’s daughter and someone’s sister. If you think about it, when you marry someone, you not only marry her, but you marry into a family, in a way.

In a date, you put some energy into projecting just best side of yourself. Not that it’s bad, but I’ve seen women as daughters, and it’s different. I like it, honestly.


#7

[quote="LilyM, post:2, topic:312021"]
The Church has no official stance as to dating beyond general exhortations to date chastely and exercise prudence and discernment in our choices of who to date, bearing in mind the goal is to find a suitable partner for Christian marriage.

Never heard of the book before, and I am hesitant to comment much further without knowing more than can be found out about it online.

As an initial response, though, I would say this seems to be along the lines of Christ's exhortation to seek first the Kingdom of God and allow Him to supply our other necessities - romantic as well as material - as and how He wills.

[/quote]

It's a book by Joshua Harris, an Evangelical author about his dating life. It is followed by his book, Boy Meets Girl, which is about how he met his wife.

They are both good books to read when trying to keep God at the center of your relationships.


#8

[quote="bzkoss236, post:7, topic:312021"]
It's a book by Joshua Harris, an Evangelical author about his dating life. It is followed by his book, Boy Meets Girl, which is about how he met his wife.

They are both good books to read when trying to keep God at the center of your relationships.

[/quote]

I'd agree with the latter comment. While it may not be Nihil Obstat, it does a splendid job of explicating how to stay holy while trying to figure out dating in our contemporary culture. As BZKoss mentioned, Harris is an Evangelical, but I didn't find the book to be denominationally directed in any way. All in all, a good book with some solid advice that personally changed my outlook on dating.


#9

[quote="DarkLight, post:5, topic:312021"]
My main concern that I had with the series is that it goes overboard in treating human emotions and sexuality as dangerous. I understand the desire to avoid sin, even in becoming too attached to one you are not married to. But we have our human desires, and I think the series teaches young adults to be afraid of their sexuality rather than learning to control it properly.

It was a real challenge for me because I didn't fit what they talked about as how girls saw things, or desire the things they said women desired. I remember it sort of pushed me to withdraw completely and try to stay "innocent" in a way that I now feel was inappropriate for a young adult, without really giving a good model of what a relationship looked like.

[/quote]

Yeah, I would definitely agree.

I see real challenges with a model that focuses primarily on group dating. People who are more extroverted may do great with group dating, but more introverted people (like myself) would have difficulty with it.

When I talk to women about dating, they always express a desire to be pursued. They want the man to step up, take charge, and ask them out. This was a tough lesson for me to learn, because I used to be shy and lack confidence. (The fear of being turned down or creating an awkward situation is a very real fear for most guys.) But I finally forced myself to take charge and when I realized that a relationship wasn't going to magically come out of nowhere without me taking an initiative.

From what I've seen with I Kissed Dating Goodbye, guys never get comfortable pursuing women or behaving in any way other than as friends. Girls never learn how to respond to men (other than as friends). Both sexes wind up relating well as friends, but become very uncomfortable and awkward in any sort of relationship. I have friends who are well into their 30s that are great catches (faithful, kind, stable, attractive), but they have difficulty dating because they never quite learned how to act around the opposite sex.

I do think it's important to spend time with groups when dating, but I also think one-on-one time is very important. I spend far more time alone with my wife than I do in a group of friends.


#10

I believe he was only 19 when he wrote this book.


#11

Yep. The book basically says that why date if you are not ready for marriage? why date if you aren't looking to get married? why bother? Also that no relationship will work if it's not God-centered (I think that one is said in Boy Meets Girl: Say Hello to Courtship). He was 19 when he wrote his first book, and twenty-something when he wrote Boy Meets Girl, already married.


#12

[quote="E_7, post:11, topic:312021"]
Yep. The book basically says that why date if you are not ready for marriage? why date if you aren't looking to get married? why bother? Also that no relationship will work if it's not God-centered (I think that one is said in Boy Meets Girl: Say Hello to Courtship). He was 19 when he wrote his first book, and twenty-something when he wrote Boy Meets Girl, already married.

[/quote]

I haven't read any of these books, but if this is the message, I agree. Why date if you are not discerning marriage? And most definitely keep God in the center of the relationship.

What is objectionable about this? :confused:


#13

I think you’ll find that’s not what most of us object to. My biggest two objections were, one, that it tends to inhibit people learning how to relate properly to the opposite sex and two each other, especially past teenager-hood. Sorry, but, as a young adult I spend at least a bit of time alone with almost all my friends - that groups only stuff would feel incredibly strained.

Two, I felt like he overdid it on the staying pure til marriage thing. Relationships fail, even serious dating relationships. People get their hearts broken. You think that this person will be the one, and it turns out wrong. You can’t keep your feelings safe, and this sort of teaching just creates guilt on top of heartbreak, for being emotionally attached to your partner.


#14

[quote="Sillara, post:12, topic:312021"]
I haven't read any of these books, but if this is the message, I agree. Why date if you are not discerning marriage? And most definitely keep God in the center of the relationship.

What is objectionable about this? :confused:

[/quote]

Nothing, but as was mentioned, the book is fairly specific on advisable/permissible "courting" practices.

Honestly, I find anyone who uses the word "courting" while denigrating dating to be pretentious, misinformed, and uncharitable, since it is a semantic game that most people do not play -- courting would be dating for most people.

I would never dream of interacting with someone I am dating mainly in groups. That is totally inconceivable. If it works for someone, great.


#15

I think this book is helpful to young people (high school, college age) who are already courting.

I think taking this approach beyond that age and especially if this is not how one’s family went about dating/courtship it would be awkward. It almost requires large numbers to group date. If one is in high school or college there is probably a youth group or young adult group that might create that group but this still won’t work unless everybody is on the same page about dating/courtship.

I read the book and thought it was interesting but not useful to me as an adult. I woudn’t recommend it for the OP’s friends if they are in the same age range as her. Ususally it’s parents that take the lead with this so at that age it’s a bit late.


#16

what is kissing dating goodbye?


#17

[quote="scree, post:9, topic:312021"]

When I talk to women about dating, they always express a desire to be pursued. They want the man to step up, take charge, and ask them out. This was a tough lesson for me to learn, because I used to be shy and lack confidence. (The fear of being turned down or creating an awkward situation is a very real fear for most guys.) But I finally forced myself to take charge and when I realized that a relationship wasn't going to magically come out of nowhere without me taking an initiative.

[/quote]

This exactly my problem with Catholic guys!!!! Too many think that if they chase a girl then they are doing what the modern world is doing and objectifying women. This just isn't true. A girl does not like to chase, she will if she feels that she has to, but it makes her feel cheap and it makes her girlfriends think of her as cheap. Also, it is hard to know if a guy likes you back just because you are a girl or if he likes you because he actually cares enough to make it last. If the guys will just step up to the plate and actually tell a girl that he likes her when he does then girls can relax a little and stop feeling like they have to hunt guys down in order to get married before they are 35. And also, girls like to be friends with guys, I have been told that this is impossible, but I don't want to believe it. If the girl thinks that the guy will say something if he thinks that he likes her enough to want to date her, then the girl can relax and just enjoy the friendship and really show him who she is without the weirdness of trying to read if he likes her or if he is just a nice guy. If a guy wants to know if a girl likes him and doesn't want to ask her directly, he can always ask her friends, she will have told them long before she would let him know. Just make sure she is the kind of friend who is not going to go straight to the girl and tell her before you get the chance.

As far as dating books go, my friends and I just read those when we want a good laugh. Each person's upbringing is so different and each couples coupling of their two upbringings is so different that the particulars of a dating book are just funny when applied to the particular. Also, most of them have these weird superlatives of "only do this" or "never do this' or "always do this." I haven't found one yet that gave a vague enough description that it could be applied to any two Catholic people.

Hope all of you have better luck with dating than I have thus far!


#18

[quote="Margarite, post:17, topic:312021"]
A girl does not like to chase, she will if she feels that she has to, but it makes her feel cheap and it makes her girlfriends think of her as cheap.

[/quote]

Speak for yourself.

Also, it is hard to know if a guy likes you back just because you are a girl or if he likes you because he actually cares enough to make it last.

How is this different for men?

If the guys will just step up to the plate and actually tell a girl that he likes her when he does then girls can relax a little and stop feeling like they have to hunt guys down in order to get married before they are 35.

Why can girls not do that as well?

And also, girls like to be friends with guys, I have been told that this is impossible, but I don't want to believe it.

You are correct -- it is not impossible.

If a guy wants to know if a girl likes him and doesn't want to ask her directly, he can always ask her friends, she will have told them long before she would let him know.

Speak for yourself!


#19

Oddly, this book helped me in my vocation. I had wrote about it recently and now just saw this thread.

See my blog post: Josh Harris Gave Me a Vocation


#20

I might be too old and too married to address this, but here goes. Seems to me there are two different things here.

One, is a person dating or whatever in order to discern whether he/she ought to be a married person at all? Personally, I knew when I was about age 5 that I would be a married person and never thought any differently, but not all people are like that.

Second, why am I going out with Mr/Miss "X"? As I recall, there was only one girl I went out with that I was not trying to figure out whether we would be a good match or not. She was the best dancer I ever knew, and both of us just liked to dance. That was it. Every other time i ever went out with anybody, it was always "wife hunting". I honestly don't know how anybody could know whom they ought to marry if they don't get pretty familiar with the person. Once I knew "Miss X" was not "Miss Right", I ended the thing, for both our sakes.

When I first met my wife of, lo, these many years, we didn't even like each other. We clashed immediately...immediately. However, after sniping back and forth at each other for a short while, we declared a truce. Then I began to see more and more in her and (one supposes) she in me. We dated others, but always came back. We married approximately one year after we met. It was just an obvious thing.

I think young people should date. That's what being young is for, in my book. But not just for the sake of dating.


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