I’m an atheist. My Catholic father thinks I’ll go to heaven


#101

God isn’t a human person, except in the sense that Jesus came to Earth as a human but He was still God so the sun and all of creation were created not by a human but by a divine being. God is spirit. He is someone who is the first cause of every living thing.

Also, as Kima, was saying, everything is so ordered and in such perfect categories and systems someone way beyond our understanding had to create our world


#102

Order doesnt need to be created by a person, and wouldn’t God then also need to be created by a person? It’s not a logical conclusion, you should see why people can disbelieve it.

The problem is with the premise: “everything with the appearance of order was made that way by a person”. But there are many counterexamples. Crystals appear ordered but are so because of physical chemistry based in the properties of their molecules. The solar system appears ordered but is so because of gravity. Now you could say that gravity and physical properties are the way they are because of God but that is assuming your conclusion.

Just pointing out that the argument is problematic and why people dont believe it.


#103

So in every chain there has to be a beginning. Somewhere the “buck has to stop”. There is something that exists in and of itself, the necessary being. The first cause. That is God.


#104

The problem with this is that you’re just defining the first causes ‘God’, but that means God could be anything, including something with no intelligence, no personality, no consciousness. God by this definition could just be like some sort of esoteric quantum field or something unrecognizable like that.


#105

We may disagree, but just as @MagdalenaRita said, someone or something has always been there. That is something we have to agree upon. I truly believe that is God, and that God has always existed. You may have some other way to explain it in, but you have to believe that something have always existed, and you mights as well call that something for God.

Atheism requires a lot more faith to believe in. It´s illogical. How could any human being be completely different if it wasn´t for the fact that there is a God? How could every single snowflake be different if it wasn´t for God? How do you and I manage to speak to each other from opposite parts of the world, even in different timezones if it wasn´t for the fact that God let it happen?


#106

Well first we know it has to have intelligence because it had to be intelligent to create our world and to be the first cause He has to be eternal.


#107

You will be forgiven from your sins if you choose to turn to God and ask for it.
God wants to forgive you, and all of your sins and wrongdoings.
You just simply have to believe in Him and ask for His forgiveness.

God loves you and want you to believe in Him. He is constantly ready and wanting to forgive you and He will do so, as long as you believe in Him and choose to ask for His grace and mercy.

If you are Christian but struggling to see how God may forgive your sins I would recommend you to talk to a priest. If you go to confession, you will be absolved from your sins and fully reconziled with God.


#108

I dont understand, we talk to people in different time zones because Alexander Graham bell invented the telephone. Snowflakes and humans are explained by physical chemistry and genetics.


#109

Where did Alexander Graham bell come from? Where did snow flakes come from?


#110

Well, the First Cause can be demonstrated as purely actual, non-composite, not extended in space, immutable, eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and acting voluntarily. So quantum fields or invisible unicorns don’t quite fit the bill.


#111

Neither of those actually follow logically. It is logically possible for an unintelligent thing to cause something to happen, and it is logically possible for the first cause to not be eternal, it could just initiate causality then cease to exist.

Again I feel a need to stress that I believe in God but am just trying to show how these arguments are not good logically. They often require you to assume the conclusion. That’s why some people dont believe them, and why no one is really convinced to believe in God because of logic. People come to believe in God because of spiritual experience, not logical argument.


#112

It’s not really being explained very well in the few posts I read, so I don’t fault you for your objections here.


#113

I bolded the bits which dont follow logically.


#114

Mr Bell came from the sexual reproduction of his parents, snowflakes are formed in a natural crystallization process of water.


#115

As I said, it’s not being explained well. Theologians have presented rational arguments for why it cannot be other than eternal, immutable, etc… And it hasn’t been explained in this topic what’s meant by causation either, or a difference between accidental efficient causation and essential efficient causation established, yadda yadda… such that these objections don’t work, though one might backtrack further and object on the basis of transcendental idealism perhaps being a more rational position to take than realism, or something along those lines, not that I agree.

I’m just rambling now.


#116

They do follow logically, they just haven’t been logically presented here.


#117

His parents didn´t create him. God chose to create him. Many couples have intercourse without it ending up with a pregnancy. It´s a meaning by every single one of them, and only God get´s to have the final word on whether a life is going to be created or not. God creates and values every single life.


#118

And where did all that start?


#119

What you state is a religious belief.

You and I believe that God created a natural world and set to motion natural laws that govern everything including sexual reproduction.

The vast majority of women have reproductive cycles where the are fertile for a couple of days each month. Should those women have intercourse during that fertile time, or a couple of days before that fertile time, the chances are high that she will conceive.

The bodies simply work according to the way they were designed.

Using religious beliefs, that God is the author of life, is not an effective apologetic for the modern atheist.

I’d suggest speaking from philosophy.


#120

The arguments follow logic. If you want deeper, more in depth explanation, I suggest the Kolbe center. I am not going deep into the argument while typing on a cell phone but I think if you check out credible sites you will find God can be explained with logic also.
The concept of an eternal necessary being is not arbitrary but required by reason.


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