I met a serious CREEP today


#1

can you believe this happened in broad daylight?

i went into a neat little antiques shop today with my 12 year old daughter (who, though pretty, is amongst the LEAST suggestively dressed girls I know AND she had a coat on) . the shop is part of a larger store-- the dealers all rent. none are management.

when we walked downstairs a man, an antiques dealer (white haird, about age 60) said, immediately and completely straight-faced: she cant come down here unless she's 21."

i looked at him, wondered what was going on, saw a sly smile and I said, "of course she can. she's been here a million times.

i gave him a half smile and my daughter and i walked by.

he talked loud to customers and never shut up. telling people their apartment/ house/ kitchen etc would be so improved with whatever little doodad they were examining. hard-sell was this guy's middle name. i was looking at a collection of antique signs and he came loudly rushing over to me. "wait! there's a sign in here perfect for you." he flipped throrugh a few signs, stopped at Betty Boop and said, "no. not this one, though she's cute." stopped at a pin up girl Coke sign and said, "no. not this one, though she's beautiful, too."

his next sign was an antique stop sign. i said, "that one. that's the one i want. i'd hold it up whenever something is bugging me. give it to me. i'll hold it up now." instead, he said, "hand it to your daughter's boyfriend." i said, "I'll hand him something else."

the damned creep laughed in the creepiest way. i said, "mister, you got me wrong. that's not what i meant. i'm walking away." and i walked away.

my daughter said, "what just happened?" i said, "the man is a creep and he's making sexual inuendos." my daughter said, "why dont i know that?" i said, "because he's smarter and nastier than you are good."

i was really shopping for something in particular. so we took the elevator upstairs to get away from this guy but to keep looking for the item. later, though, he was upstairs. he comes out of some back room (how did he get there?) and he says to my daughter, "do you play sports?" she said, "no." he said," I used to coach a highschool basketball team. are you in-- what-- 10th grade?" i stopped. turned and looked right at him. in fact, i stepped between him and my daughter. i (gathering my wherewithal) said, "she's in 7th grade. not 10th. 7th." he said
"I liked having girls like that on my team. she looks mischevious." I narrowed my eyes. i'm ready to pummel this creep. he quickly says, "and she looks smart, too." i said very decidedly , "she **is *very smart. and *so am i**."

i took my daughter by the arm and began to walk away. he called out, "i once asked a girlfriend that. and she said, 'I don't knowwwww.'" (he said this in a whiney, girly voice.)

i stopped. drew a deep breath and turned around. "you once asked your girlfreind what? if she were smart?"

he said "No. if she was mischevious."

i stood there looking at this stalking, perverse bully. i said, "you're done talking to us. you will not speak to us again."

people in the shop looked at me. the guy disappeared into the back room. when i was satisfied that he had retreated first, we left the store.

as i was writing this and talking about this just now, my daughter just reminded me what town he said he was from (another state). i'm going to look for him on the sex offenders list. and whether i find him or not, i'm contacting the store owner and letting her know she has a bullying pervert prowling about her shop.

has anything like this ever happened to you?

and it's time for another really long talk with my daughters.


#2

Ewwwwwww.

Good job from you, though. Sometimes I struggle to tell people to back off because I don't want to make a scene. This creep NEEDS to have a scene made. Nasty, creep. Definitely report him to the owner.


#3

Oh, wow. What a scuzzbucket. I am so sorry, esp for your daughter. I hope she is OK?

Yeah. I suspect he took lessons from my foster "uncle". ICK.

I would tell the management, they may not be aware of what he's doing...and I'd imagine looking in the sexual predators database couldn't hurt, either.

Wow, just wow....


#4

I don't get it :confused:

What did he say bad, please?


#5

Yep, probably someone with not honorable intentions. Your daughter is probably a very nice girl but she should learn right now that speaking to strange men is never a good idea. Did you ask her if she got a funny feeling in her stomach when that man was nearby? If so, bingo! Tell her that if she ever has that feeling, to get the hell away from whoever is speaking to her. That's the Holy Spirit telling us to "Watch out!"

Let us know what you find out about the sex offenders list.


#6

Remember, there are two sides to every story. These are some serious accusations that the OP is leveling against the man. It is best that we not get too worked up over this. It isnt fair to the man being accused. We have no direct evidence that anything happened other than the testimony, unbacked up by any witness testimony.

It is best to not make these accusation public as they can ruin the good reputation that people have. As Catholics, it is irresponsible and unChristian to make such accusations public without any substance to the charges. All we have is one person's account of what happened. Even her daughter isnt here to vouch for her story.

I wonder if this is so bad why the OP didnt call the police or inform management on the spot? If my daughter was going through something as described by the OP you bet I would be demanding to speak to the manager and police.

Im not saying it didnt happen. Im just saying it isnt fair to go accusing people of something so serious without anything to back up the charges.


#7

[quote="TheRealJuliane, post:5, topic:222459"]
Did you ask her if she got a funny feeling in her stomach when that man was nearby? If so, bingo! Tell her that if she ever has that feeling, to get the hell away from whoever is speaking to her. That's the Holy Spirit telling us to "Watch out!"

[/quote]

Excellent advice! I need to remember that as my kids get older. :thumbsup:


#8

These are some serious accusations that the OP is leveling against the man.

you bet they’re serious. you betcha betcha betcha. my description of this man’s behavior is as serious as i’ve ever been.

i did just email the owner, Anne. with a lengthy description.

when i called the store to inquire about the man’s name, the cashier (whose name was rhonda, * she asked me, “why do you want to know his name?” i told her i wanted to make a complaint to Anne about him. i didnt say what for nor did i sound the least bit upset. in fact, i really wanted to check the offenders list but i didnt say that either. she said, “oh. I dont want to get invloved.”

so i just emailed Anne. i gave a lengthey description of his behavior and our very unsettling exchanges, and informed her that her employee Rhonda refused to give me information.

but at home here, i ended the conversation. this is too important to relegate to kitchen banter. i have to wait until tonight to talk to my girls (age 12 and 15) about this thoroughly.*


#9

The man sounds as if he has serious issues. I think you handled it well by cutting him off as you did, and the actions you plan to take sound like good ones. You may also want to call the police from the town the shop is in, and let them know that a man was harrassing your daughter who is a MINOR (stressing her age to them will make them take note), and leave a description of the man with them. They may not be able to do anything about it just then, but by giving them notice of what transpired, you may be help them keep an eye out for this man. He sounds like he is on the verge of taking physical evil action.

Heavenly Father, thank You for watching out for this mother and her innocent daughter. Thank You Lord for making sure that this man and all like him are stopped from harming others. Amen.


#10

I hope she is OK?

thanks phoenix, she's OK. really i understood i have to wait for this conversation in earnest because there's a LOT about this she doesnt "get."

she said he was "creepy" as soon as we left the store.

she said my reaction was comforting.

and validating, though she didnt use that word.

but this brings up so may questions. even for myself-- even though it went so FAST-- these exchanges, i still feel like i shoulda seen it coming after his weird initial remark about being 21. i should have been MORE assertive/ proactive/ steady.


#11

[quote="mjs1987, post:6, topic:222459"]
Remember, there are two sides to every story. These are some serious accusations that the OP is leveling against the man. It is best that we not get too worked up over this. It isnt fair to the man being accused. We have no direct evidence that anything happened other than the testimony, unbacked up by any witness testimony.

It is best to not make these accusation public as they can ruin the good reputation that people have. As Catholics, it is irresponsible and unChristian to make such accusations public without any substance to the charges. All we have is one person's account of what happened. Even her daughter isnt here to vouch for her story.

I wonder if this is so bad why the OP didnt call the police or inform management on the spot? If my daughter was going through something as described by the OP you bet I would be demanding to speak to the manager and police.

Im not saying it didnt happen. Im just saying it isnt fair to go accusing people of something so serious without anything to back up the charges.

[/quote]

I know several NYPD Veterans. They will tell you this: Creeps like him count on women being nice, feeling overwhelmed by the verbal assault and not-so-subtle air of possible physical assault and/or not feeling confident enough to file a complaint at all. She did the right thing by making sure that she shielded herself and her daughter from the harrassment and possible physical assault. He was testing the waters to see how far he could take the harrassment, and possibly physically assault this mother and her child. Most women are raised to be ladies, and not create a rutkus. This lady has true grit: she defended herself and her daughter, and she plans to take action. We cannot second guess a victim in her situation ------ especially one who has her child with her. She followed her gut instinct and her smarts, and she was able to stop the situation.

My question is this: Why are you defending the perpetrator, and trying to make the victims question their observations and/or sanity? Your comments just don't compute.


#12

I am confused by this thread. Creepiness and ICKiness are feelings, of course women should act accordingly.

But there was an interaction here and I see no blatantly egregious statements by the man. He did act teasingly but not sexually overtly. It appears to me that the interaction just went badly and assignment of motives is projection.

monicatholic, what exactly was this man's offense? Can I ask that question without defending him or trampling on your feelings?

Also LittleDeb supposedly quoted TheRealJuliane, as if she has posted on this thread. She has not and so I am further confused.


#13

[quote="C_S_P_B, post:12, topic:222459"]

Also LittleDeb supposedly quoted TheRealJuliane, as if she has posted on this thread. She has not and so I am further confused.

[/quote]

Hiyas:)

I suspect, the post was deleted by the author. It was posted here at onetime. :)


#14

[quote="kimmielittle, post:4, topic:222459"]
I don't get it :confused:

What did he say bad, please?

[/quote]

It wasn't the fact that he said anything bad as in a cuss word. It's what he was alluding to that was so bad.

Op,

Good job mom for catching on to this guy and not letting that man near you little girl. Definitely make sure the manager knows about this.


#15

What was he alluding to that was “so bad”? Banter can often be misconstrued. Feelings are not facts.

Please enlighten and clarify this for those of us that are dense.


#16

[quote="NiceMimi, post:11, topic:222459"]
I know several NYPD Veterans. They will tell you this: Creeps like him count on women being nice, feeling overwhelmed by the verbal assault and not-so-subtle air of possible physical assault and/or not feeling confident enough to file a complaint at all. She did the right thing by making sure that she shielded herself and her daughter from the harrassment and possible physical assault. He was testing the waters to see how far he could take the harrassment, and possibly physically assault this mother and her child. Most women are raised to be ladies, and not create a rutkus. This lady has true grit: she defended herself and her daughter, and she plans to take action. We cannot second guess a victim in her situation ------ especially one who has her child with her. She followed her gut instinct and her smarts, and she was able to stop the situation.

My question is this: Why are you defending the perpetrator, and trying to make the victims question their observations and/or sanity? Your comments just don't compute.

[/quote]

This is one of those situations where we women need to ignore how nice the man "appears" to be and listen to that little voice deep inside of us. More women get hurt for ignoring that voice than they do for listening to it.


#17

[quote="C_S_P_B, post:15, topic:222459"]

What was he alluding to that was "so bad"? Banter can often be misconstrued. Feelings are not facts.

Please enlighten and clarify this for those of us that are dense.

[/quote]

It was the sexual overtures that he was making. I'm sorry if your not seeing it. Some people can be so subtle that it can be easy to miss. Are you saying she should have ignored the instincts that where telling her to get away from this man?


#18

[quote="Sabda, post:14, topic:222459"]
It wasn't the fact that he said anything bad as in a cuss word. It's what he was alluding to that was so bad.

[/quote]

Thank you. :):)


#19

[quote="C_S_P_B, post:12, topic:222459"]
I am confused by this thread. Creepiness and ICKiness are feelings, of course women should act accordingly.

But there was an interaction here and I see no blatantly egregious statements by the man. He did act teasingly but not sexually overtly. It appears to me that the interaction just went badly and assignment of motives is projection.

monicatholic, what exactly was this man's offense? Can I ask that question without defending him or trampling on your feelings?

Also LittleDeb supposedly quoted TheRealJuliane, as if she has posted on this thread. She has not and so I am further confused.

[/quote]

He wasn't pursuing a woman. He was pursuing a 7th grader....and trying to flatter her into thinking she could pass as a woman! That is beyond creepy.

You might want to take a class offered by your diocese on spotting (and confounding) the most common grooming behaviors used by offenders who prey on children and young adults. These courses were put together by talking to convicted sex offenders about how they operated. It is very important that children know to avoid adults who exhibit these behaviors, particularly adults who persist after they are told to stop by a parent. That is a huge red flag.

Of course you didn't see "egregious statements" by the man. "Successful" sexual predators do not make blunt overtures of that sort, at least not in the beginning. They do not normally grab children off of the street, either, particularly if they hope to prey upon adolescents. Rather, they use interchanges like the one described to feel out likely targets. They do not ravish; they woo. It is very much worth your while to learn this stuff, as every adult with their eyes open is an adult who can be there to stop them. In order to groom victims, these guys need some room to operate. With vigilance, they can be denied that room. If they are stopped, the children are protected and the would-be perpetrators are kept from the near occasion of a very grave and deeply injurious sin. This is a big deal.

I would absolutely complain about that man to the management. Even if he was innocent--and he is at least guilty of very rudely persisting in unwanted attentions towards females he does not know--he cannot be allowed to get children accustomed to accepting that kind of overtures. That is not a safe environment.


#20

[quote="Sabda, post:17, topic:222459"]
It was the sexual overtures that he was making. I'm sorry if your not seeing it. Some people can be so subtle that it can be easy to miss. Are you saying she should have ignored the instincts that where telling her to get away from this man?

[/quote]

[FONT=Arial]I'm sorry that you are not explaining it so a man can understand. Are feelings the ultimate determinant? I thought freedom and rights were based on absolutes. Since the incident was serious enough to post on CAF, there should be some material behavior that can be pointed out.

Sabda, please offer an explanation of the sexual overtones and what the implied message was. Men need to understand this so men can conduct themselves in such a way as to not offend women. I really don't know if this guy acted inappropriately, other that offending the feelings of one woman.

The world gets to be an ambiguous place when reality and crimes are determined based on an individual woman's feelings. How can people conduct their lives under these circumstances?

I am just a guy asking for clarification and not intending to negate the feelings of any woman, but when I ask for clarification, the answer is kind of like "she feels it and knows." It is quite difficult to define proper behavior using this definition.[/FONT]


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.