I once asked about upraised hands during the "Our Father"


#1

Here, from a parish website, is the answer.

For the Pater noster (Our Father) the preferred position is with palms held together or hands folded. Hands should not be extended outwardly or upwardly; this position is reserved for clergy.

mqop.com/posturesandprocedures.html

There is much more on the link but the upraised hands thing gets to me. In my own Church people are doing it when the Priest says "peace be with you" and they reply with upraised hands "and with your spirit"

It is starting to have a pentecostal feeling to the masses.


#2

[quote="Hound_Dog, post:1, topic:286711"]
Here, from a parish website, is the answer.

mqop.com/posturesandprocedures.html

There is much more on the link but the upraised hands thing gets to me. In my own Church people are doing it when the Priest says "peace be with you" and they reply with upraised hands "and with your spirit"

It is starting to have a pentecostal feeling to the masses.

[/quote]

The First Letter to Timothy: "I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling" (2:8).

Is "a pentecostal feeling" such a bad thing? Maybe the new Pentecost is coming? :)
Why don't you keep your self to your self at mass? Dont you know that lifting hands even above ones thigh in a Catholic assembly is difficult and the reason for doing so is a language of the heart, a gesture of intense interest in what is going on, earnest supplecation, joy etc?
I feel rather the opposite is the problem in many Catholic parishes.. people look like stone faces as though they were scared lest something bad would happen if they felt any stirring in their soul that might spil over into bodily expression. When I became a Catholic I felt it was embarrasing that people would kneel.. I was not used to that. My back ground would call it an emotional display of piety.
Now I love to kneel.. and I love to lift my hands too to God, which is mentioned both in old and new testament, not only as priestly ritual act. But I hardly do it at Church, for I have noticed that some are scandalized by such things.


#3

IF I wanted to go to the pentecostal church I would. I am not into speaking in tongues or snake handling or the constant preaching of end time prophesies.

As a Catholic from birth I have seen more "evangelical" or "pentecostal" things slowly showing up in Mass.

IF the Mass starts to become too "protestant" then I will cease to attend.

Are you a convert? That could explain your reply.


#4

Do what I did..start going exclusively to the Traditional Latin Mass---absolutely nothing protestant/pentecostal about that--You will love it

[quote="Hound_Dog, post:3, topic:286711"]
IF I wanted to go to the pentecostal church I would. I am not into speaking in tongues or snake handling or the constant preaching of end time prophesies.

As a Catholic from birth I have seen more "evangelical" or "pentecostal" things slowly showing up in Mass.

IF the Mass starts to become too "protestant" then I will cease to attend.

Are you a convert? That could explain your reply.

[/quote]


#5

[quote="Hound_Dog, post:3, topic:286711"]
As a Catholic from birth I have seen more "evangelical" or "pentecostal" things slowly showing up in Mass.

IF the Mass starts to become too "protestant" then I will cease to attend.

Are you a convert? That could explain your reply.

[/quote]

You would give up the supreme gift of the Eucharist, and shirk your obligation and commit mortal sin, just because of things that laypeople do in Mass?! I mean seriously, we are not even talking about clergy abuses here!


#6

[quote="Hound_Dog, post:3, topic:286711"]
IF I wanted to go to the pentecostal church I would. I am not into speaking in tongues or snake handling or the constant preaching of end time prophesies.

As a Catholic from birth I have seen more "evangelical" or "pentecostal" things slowly showing up in Mass.

IF the Mass starts to become too "protestant" then I will cease to attend.

Are you a convert? That could explain your reply.

[/quote]

Snakehandling? I'm not interested in that, which is why I will leave you to your own mighty company.


#7

[quote="santoaugustine, post:4, topic:286711"]
Do what I did..start going exclusively to the Traditional Latin Mass---absolutely nothing protestant/pentecostal about that--You will love it

[/quote]

:thumbsup:


#8

[quote="Elizium23, post:5, topic:286711"]
You would give up the supreme gift of the Eucharist, and shirk your obligation and commit mortal sin, just because of things that laypeople do in Mass?! I mean seriously, we are not even talking about clergy abuses here!

[/quote]

Is it just because of lay people? No, it is because the clergy allows it to happen. I have never seen a Priest or any other Church official tell a congregation not to raise their hands or anything else. There are cell phones going off during mass and not a word about it. I witnessed a man, come into the Church wearing a hat. He never took it off and in fact received Communion wearing it and not a word was said. He was too far away from me to say something to him. He was a young guy with a baseball cap.

I have gone to Mass in 3 states in different parts of the country and it is becoming epidemic.

As far as a mortal sin goes, IF the time comes and I decide not to attend Mass any longer I will take my chances when my time comes.:)

I see you are a Knight. When are you going for your Fourth Degree? :)


#9

[quote="santoaugustine, post:4, topic:286711"]
Do what I did..start going exclusively to the Traditional Latin Mass---absolutely nothing protestant/pentecostal about that--You will love it

[/quote]

I will have to check into this.

Thank you:thumbsup:


#10

Are you looking for just any old excuse to leave the Catholic Church?


#11

[quote="GraceDK, post:6, topic:286711"]
Snakehandling? I'm not interested in that, which is why I will leave you to your own mighty company.

[/quote]

I have nothing to do with snake handling of any kind and certainly not as a religious practice.

You never did answer me. Are you a convert?

You quoted something from the bible about raising of hands but the Bishops say differently. Does your quote apply to what goes on in the Mass? No. It doesn't.

I'll listen to the Bishops and I suggest you listen to the teachings of the Church instead of using your own interpretation.


#12

IF I wanted to leave I would not need an excuse. I would simply do it.


#13

[quote="Hound_Dog, post:11, topic:286711"]
You quoted something from the bible about raising of hands but the Bishops say differently. Does your quote apply to what goes on in the Mass? No. It doesn't.

[/quote]

She took the quote completely out of context. The emphasis is that we must pray with pure hands, not in some strange charismatic state of fabricated ecstasy. Of course the next verses are almost wholly ignored in nearly all modern parishes.

**I will therefore that men pray in every place, lifting up pure hands, without anger and contention.* In like manner women also in decent apparel: adorning themselves with modesty and sobriety, not with plaited hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly attire, But as it becometh women professing godliness, with good works. Let the woman learn in silence, with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.*


#14

umm i dont get it, why is people showing there love for God a problem for you? its not like there interrupting the Mass :confused:


#15

[quote="Hound_Dog, post:12, topic:286711"]
IF I wanted to leave I would not need an excuse. I would simply do it.

[/quote]

So this is just an excuse to point out the speck in the eye of your parish? This little gesture is going to undo the Mass, invalidate the Real Presence, and dismantle the Church's theology so that Catholics everywhere become Pentecostal?

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.


#16

[quote="Splagchnizomai, post:15, topic:286711"]
This little gesture is going to undo the Mass, invalidate the Real Presence, and dismantle the Church's theology so that Catholics everywhere become Pentecostal?

[/quote]

We don't just avoid certain things because they might invalidate the Mass or cause some other grave consequence. Riding your bike up the line to Communion wouldn't invalidate the Mass, but it would be absurd to try it.

The point is that this gesture is one reserved for the clergy and it is a complete novelty on the part of the faithful to be doing it at that or any other point in the Mass.


#17

[quote="Splagchnizomai, post:15, topic:286711"]
So this is just an excuse to point out the speck in the eye of your parish? This little gesture is going to undo the Mass, invalidate the Real Presence, and dismantle the Church's theology so that Catholics everywhere become Pentecostal?

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

[/quote]

Did you read the position of the Bishops on this? It appears you did not. So check out my original post.

and you are not stating my position in an honest way.

and please read that I stated I have attended Mass in 3 states in different regions of the country so how can it be I am doing anything specifically against my parish?


#18

[quote="mattkubes, post:16, topic:286711"]
We don't just avoid certain things because they might invalidate the Mass or cause some other grave consequence. Riding your bike up the line to Communion wouldn't invalidate the Mass, but it would be absurd to try it.

[/quote]

Good point.

[quote="mattkubes, post:16, topic:286711"]
The point is that this gesture is one reserved for the clergy and it is a complete novelty on the part of the faithful to be doing it at that or any other point in the Mass.

[/quote]

Are we called to stop attending Mass because of novelties? Should we abandon parishes when parishoners hold hands during the OF?


#19

[quote="mattkubes, post:16, topic:286711"]
We don't just avoid certain things because they might invalidate the Mass or cause some other grave consequence. Riding your bike up the line to Communion wouldn't invalidate the Mass, but it would be absurd to try it.

The point is that this gesture is one reserved for the clergy and it is a complete novelty on the part of the faithful to be doing it at that or any other point in the Mass.

[/quote]

Thank you:thumbsup::)


#20

[quote="Splagchnizomai, post:18, topic:286711"]
Good point.

Are we called to stop attending Mass because of novelties? Should we abandon parishes when parishoners hold hands during the OF?

[/quote]

This is the Catholic Church not any protestant denomination where there are novelties.


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