I reject some dogmas

Hello all,

Not trying to cause drama, but trying to get a question answered. I have asked this to two priests and a Bishop without an answer. I reject purgatory and the assumptiin of marry. I don’t doubt them, but wholeheartedly reject them. Am I excommunicated? Thank you and sorry to ask in this forum.

I will say straight out that I do not know the answer.

I did some Googling.

ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage_print.asp?number=389436&language=en

What I gather from this is that if you knowingly reject dogmas that you know are dogmas of the faith and in full knowledge that such rejection leads to excommunication then you are excommunicated.

That said, I’m an anonymous poster on the Internet quoting something he just Googled, so take that with a grain of salt. If a bishop and two priests wouldn’t answer you, I’d put more weight in that than me. Please wait and see what others more knowledgeable than I say.

Seems a shame to reject those two dogmas, though. They’re also taught as part of the Faith, with some nuanced differences, by our Eastern Orthodox brethren.

Hi,

Something I had to get past was the idea I knew more than ~2000 years of Catholic Christendom! That I was smarter than and had more information than the Church Fathers.

I couldn’t buy either of these as well but after prayer and study and hearing lots of great Catholic Apologetics (EWTN has some great programs that discuss this topics regularly) came to believe.

I actually accepted them before I came to understand the historical and Biblical basis of the and other teachings that did not line up with my world view.

I’d suggest to not be so final about it. Leave room to learn. Prayer and study will shed light.

I’m pretty confident if you are willing to learn there is no problem.

EP

I have studied them, taught them, defended them, but never really believed them. Tahnks for your response.

Why do you reject them?

Most people get caught up on transfiguration but purgatory and the assumption aren’t that hard to accept.

We don’t accept them because we understand them. We accept them because God has revealed them to us through his Church.

Immediately the father of the child cried out and said, “I believe; help my unbelief!” (Mark 9:24)

We assent. We choose to believe in spite of our difficulty.

Saying “I don’t believe them” isn’t good enough. Choose to believe instead. You have to take the first step. God will respond.

-Tim-

Maybe a certain passage of the New Testament has an application in your case.

2nd Timothy 3:7 always trying to learn but never able to reach a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so they also oppose the truth—people of depraved mind, unqualified in the faith.

Perhaps I can offer you insights that will help cure your unbelief.
Biblical and Jewish Traditional Beliefs About Purgatory
Reasons Why I Believe in The Blessed Virgin Mary’s Assumption

I’m not quite sure why two priests and a Bishop couldn’t answer that question for you, but here’s a pretty good summary for you: ewtn.com/expert/answers/heresy_schism_apostasy.htm.

I’ll keep you in my prayers, because this is certainly not a light matter. I would also encourage you to do some serious praying before Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament on this.

Poly, it’s probably because his question is not about the doctrines he denies but about his position in the church. i.e. whether he is excommunicated or not.

I suspect he doesn’t really care much one way or the other, but the priests and bishop would never make such a determination lightly.

The reality is that what he’s not saying is that he’s not Catholic…and never really was.

If he’s been truthful then he was misled because nothing has changed on Purgatory and the Assumption, but I can’t imagine anyone in authority feeding him that line so you’ll have to call me skeptical.

Something most definitely ain’t right with this thread.

Purgatory just makes sense!

I would say ask this in the Ask An Apologist section of the forum to get an apologist’s response.

Agreed.

Would it not be simpler to find another Christian community (aka church) to join? Is it not YOU who are causing the drama?

+1

her name is spelled “Mary” btw.

A quick forum search reveals that this dude has only made 5 posts of a similar nature.

I call troll. :stuck_out_tongue:

I guess it depends to some extent on how much you publicize your views. If you write articles and participate in demonstrations rejecting Catholicism, then I suppose that it might be possible to be excommunicated. Although I haven’t heard of too many dissenters being excommunicated recently. Some women priests were excommunicated, but they demanded to be ordained as priests. For another example, I think that there is a priest who rejects the infallibility dogma, and although he was not allowed to teach as a Catholic theologian, I don;t think that he was officially excommunicated. He is actually supposed to meet with the Pope for some sort of discussion.

If you are unable to submit to the authority of the church, then I would say you essentially place yourself outside the church. That is what protestants are doing…protesting the church and her authority.

I would highly recommend that in areas that you have problems, that you humbly try to grow in understanding in those areas rather than saying “I know best and I am certain”. Lots of “I’s” in those words, and instead I would encourage you to say, “I don’t really get this, but I will humbly say that the Church has authority and must be right on this, and so I will try and figure out more about it.” Leave your heart open and don’t publicly speak against the church dogmas and doctrines. Thats all the Church asks of you.

God Bless.

To all those saying that something ain’t right with this thread let me give you some background. I came into the church 11 years ago and was told purgatory was no longer taught. I was obviously told wrong. Maybe I was never really catholic to begin with…I don’t know. I have have studied but believing because I’m told to does not work for me. I have tried that for a decade. I appreciate all your responses and will consider what you all said. Sorry for any typos. I’m on my phone and have big thumbs.

I don’t remember anyone ever telling us that they don’t preach purgatory anymore. Maybe that individual was mistaken. I don’t think Purgatory was ever disallowed, but it could have just taken a back seat to other issues.

Also, Assumption of Mary seems to be logical. She was favored this way because she is the mother of God. I think keeping an open mind on some things is helpful.

There is no doubt that many doctrines of the Church are hard to accept rationally. You choose two that are less a problem to many than say the Trinity; the hypostatic union or the reality of the Eucharist. However, you say you have studied and cannot believe. OK, nothing wrong with that. Faith is a gift. Pray for it. If your rationality is to be your final arbiter of your faith you may have continued problems similar to Thomas or any of us that demand a proof. Sometimes our Faith demands humility of spirit that is galling to our pride in our reasoning. Accepting that the Church has the right to bind us in the Spirit may yet be ahead for you. Faith is a journey and if I were in your shoes I would not worry about excommunication. Rather I would be praying for real Faith that is not contrary to your reason but makes such reason irrelevant to your assent.
Just two points on the issues you are having difficulty in accepting. Purgatory is rationally cogent in expressing the mystery of perfect justice and perfect mercy. If only perfection can enter heaven, it works for the likes of me who will never be perfect in this life.
The Assumption of Our Lady cannot be proven by rational analysis, nor historical research. It has been the continued belief of a Church two thousand years old and seems to sit well with the respect we would expect of Jesus to His mother. It sits well emotionally with me and thus I have no problem accepting the dogmatic pronouncement on the Church on this issue, which appears to have little relevance to my journey to my Lord. I suppose it is due to the love I hold for Our Lady who has been such a guide for me to her Son. It is the sort of respect that appears to be given in a lesser degree to many female saints whose bodies remain in-corrupt. after death.
My poor sad prayers are with you in your struggle. Don’t give up. Pray.

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