I seriously HATE talking to Fundamentalist Protestants

They ignore scripture that goes against their Sola Fida belief, such as James 2:14-17, and explicit to me Ephesians, forgot, that says let no man boast, well I got the answer from another forum that says its about the obligation of God paying you. Anyways, I hate how they call themselves the true church when they really are not. And call us heretic and were all going to hell for living the truth of Jesus. LOL I just really hate talking to them because they ignore vital catholic scripture, put their fingers in their ear, and yell LALALALALAALALAL. Its true in most arguments!

Fundimentalists are already threatened by the success of the Catholic Church. Is it any wonder that your terrifyingly accurate knowedge of scripture makes them panic into error? :wink:

I quoted this verse of Scripture to a Fundamentalist Pentecostal the other day and she tried to tell me that it does not mean what it says. I am not sure what she said about it but clearly she is wrong.

You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
(James 2:24 RSV)

So don’t talk to them.

Well you haven’t identified yourself but it is clear that this is probably not the forum for you and you should move on.

True, many won’t listen, but ones who do will enjoy genuinely discussing scripture… especially the bible loving ones…

Please, pray for them instead of hating them! Their facts may be wrong, but I have seen a genuine love of God… so I pray that God will show them the truth.

Tell them that Jesus started the Catholic Church. That’s historical. Tell them also that the Bible is a Catholic book. That’s historical, too. End with, “And the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Those words from Jesus should end all argument. If someone tries to denigrate the Catholic Church, he is working against the wishes of Jesus. I wouldn’t want to be that person on judgment day.

Okay, I’m thinking there is a lot of frustration talking here - not really ill-will toward these folks. As a revert who spent time in fundamentalist and evangelical Protestant churches for many years before coming back home - I can get frustrated myself talking to old friends explaining our return to the Church, even when using scripture. I have learned a couple of things. Always remember to LOVE the person you are talking to - seriously, ask the Lord for His love for them. Secondly, there is a lot of good material that can be helpful - first to mind - Dr. Scott & Kimberly Hahn’s Rome Sweet Home, David Currie’s Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic. These are written from the perspective of the Catholic convert who came from a fundamentalist background and they put a person to the “label”. Most of these people don’t “GET” the Catholic church, and they’ve been misinformed (sometimes even by disgruntled Catholics or Catholics who don’t know their faith) or trained to think of Catholicism as just plain wrong. The best thing we can do is love them, pray for them, and keep the dialogue as open as possible. They may not ever become Catholic, but at least they can gain a better understanding of what we believe. They may choose not to think of us as brothers and sisters in Christ, but we should not out of our love for the Lord, and His love for them, return the same back to them.

I love talking to Fundamentalist Protestants. I love explaining that the 27 ‘books’ of the New Testament consist of the writings of the Catholic Church. They have taken the Church’s own words, misinterpreted them, and try to use them against the very Church that wrote them!

Buy this little book: Where We Got the Bible, Our Debt to the Catholic Church, by Henry Graham. It’s available from Catholic Answers and from Amazon.

It’s also available on line:

catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/wbible.htm

Lean Catholic history and why the Church teaches what she teaches. Learn the history of the Bible. You can’t be intimidated if you are armed with the facts.

Jim Dandy

Your answer made me smile, Jim. If we’d met someone like you my husband and I would have gotten back Home a lot sooner! Thanks for sharing the truth. I’m working on being better informed - if I’d only known the treasure I had to begin with I’d have never left.

May Jesus bless your efforts.

The interpretation of the fundamentals of Christianity, one could say, entirely could depend upon what one has accepted as foundational in Christianity.It seems to me that all faiths of a measure of respect to an origination of Jesus’ teachings must lend credence to any of a discipline that would re-examine the addressing of this notion in all traditions of those who support basic assumptions about our teacher. Although this “getting the basis from the origin” I have just described from my hard-to-follow perspective, any sound fundamentalism must address ultimately the orientation of but a single source. Any spectre of inquiry of such seeks an awe and truth that inspired any and all scripture, holy literature, or statement of opinion and viewpoint, no matter when, where and by whom. At least in this, all, of Christianity, have an indisputable center, wordless and illuminating, and any word of first utterance upon ‘communion’ can not be of anything but love of Our Father by like way of the Son. Rudiments are not the essences of a core yet of the semantics in words we choose in attribution of our wordless experience.

Perhaps if the Word of our Lord Jesus Christ stands upon this very point of where there is “immaculate vanishing points” between origin and ‘First Christ’, indeed a place where there is difference in opinion, we have at least the historical entirety of all who ever could embrace Christianity whatsoever. And any aversion to the coarse expression in modern terms of this speaks and can yield unto the listening to a new lesson from our teacher. He is here. Squabbling amongst the students is a disruption to the newest of any teaching. Thanks. There is always a better way. It isn’t mine, but I can take it some more instead.

I’ve been re-reading The Divine Milieu, Teilhard de Chardin.

They ignore scripture that goes against their Sola Fida belief, such as James 2:14-17, and explicit to me Ephesians, forgot, that says let no man boast, well I got the answer from another forum that says its about the obligation of God paying you. Anyways, I hate how they call themselves the true church when they really are not. And call us heretic and were all going to hell for living the truth of Jesus. LOL I just really hate talking to them because they ignore vital catholic scripture, put their fingers in their ear, and yell LALALALALAALALAL. Its true in most arguments!

Yikes! I think the real problem here is the way that they’re reacting to you. It seems to me
that you have no problem intelligently communicating to the Fundamentalist but perhaps… they’re not taking it well? I believe that there’s a good article here called…

catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0410fea4.asp

Maybe you can disarm them and make them nicer and more receptive. Also, please don’t lose your temper, even when they do. It makes you look like the bigger person.

Please talk to the Fundamentalist people with love and with a humble heart. That’s what happened to me when I was in their shoes. Gentle and loving guidance got me across the Tiber. I am forever grateful.

You may want to start by pointing out to them what you have in common like the nature of God, the Trinity, deity of Christ, Death and Resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

1 Corinthians 15
Resurrection Essential to the Gospel

1 Now brothers, I want to clarify [a] for you the gospel I proclaimed to you; you received it and have taken your stand on it. 2 You are also saved by it, if you hold to the message I proclaimed to you—unless you believed to no purpose. ** 3 For I passed on to you as most important what I also received:
that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 that He was buried,
that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the Twelve.
6 Then He appeared to over 500 brothers at one time,
most of whom remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep.

7 Then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 
8 Last of all, as to one abnormally born, He also appeared to me.**

Is that “Where we got the Bible” a TAN book? I’ve heard of it.

I love to talk to fundamentalists as well. I saw one person say they talked to a Pentecostal fundamentalist, I guess that can exist though that is a bit of a new one on me.

I don’t know if you would call me a fundamentalist or not. I believe that Gog gave us ample information in the writings left by his followers to decide for ourselves what his instructions are. I think that both protestants and Catholics are guilty of trying to put a spin on the scriptures to justify what they WANT to believe.

I agree that anyone that refuses to have an open discussion is difficult to talk to, but you also need to understand that things are not as simple as you explain them.

For example. The word, “church” used by Christ and the greek word in the original texts does not translate very well to the Roman Catholic Church. I think it would much more true to the original language to say “following” or “those called out to follow me”.

When looking at the original texts, many of the things you quoted in this forum actually don’t defend your position very well.

You seem to be making the same type of mistake that the fundamentalists you hate are making by starting from the position that you are right. It is hard to have a discussion with anyone that starts from the position that, “Jesus started the RCC” and that every time he referenced “My Church” he was talking about the RCC.

Try considering the possibility that “My Church” is not referring to RCC. Try reading Young’s literal translation of the bible. It might soften your position a little.

I am open to becoming a Catholic (that is why I am here) but it is hard for me to give your position any credibility when every Catholic I talk to either says, “You just need to have faith.” (I do have faith in God and Jesus, just not in the institution of the RCC) or “The Catholic Church is Jesus’s church because Jesus used the word church.”

[quote=jswanstr]“The Catholic Church is Jesus’s church because Jesus used the word church.”
[/quote]

This is a poor caricature of what the Catholic apologist says in this regard! Welcome to CAF - I hope that you are able to learn a few things while here, and I hope and pray you come to realize and recognize the truth of the Church :slight_smile:

OK… I may have exagerated a little… :slight_smile:

But I have never had ANY Catholic address my question regarding the use of the word ekklesia which literally means, “Those called out” or “The called out ones”.

In classical Greek “ekklesia” meant “an assembly of citizens summoned by the crier, the legislative assembly.”

So… to me… the word church, when used by Jesus, should more closely be translated into the body of all christian citizens or the total population of his followers instead of a political organization or a building.

If I had read the bible without any bias, I don’t think I would have ever come to the conclusion that there was an authority to speak on Jesus’ behalf passed down through the generations. I would have read it that there were spiritual leaders appointed, but that seems to be a far cry from the power the RCC claims.

My problems with the church come from the general philosophy that without the political organization of the RCC, Christianity would no longer exist. That seems to take some of the glory belonging to Christ and giving to an organization of men.

Timothy said, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” My objective reading of that would seem to reason that Timothy is going directly against the idea of a pope, cardinal, bishop, or priest being required for things like weddings or confession.

Keep in mind, Timothy wrote that long after Christ ascended.

That is what Catholics believe. We do not believe Jesus built a literal building or started a political organization. Jesus built His church on Peter and the Apostles, and their successors.

18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." (Matthew (RSV) 16:18-19)

19 So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, (Ephesians (RSV) 2:19-20)

If I had read the bible without any bias, I don’t think I would have ever come to the conclusion that there was an authority to speak on Jesus’ behalf passed down through the generations. I would have read it that there were spiritual leaders appointed, but that seems to be a far cry from the power the RCC claims.

“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” (Matthew (RSV) 28:19-20)

16 “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.” (Luke (RSV) 10:16)

And what about Acts 1 when Peter and the Apostles appoint a replacement for Judas?

What about the requirements of a bishop’s office in 1 Timothy 3? Does this not speak of something more than a mere spiritual leader?

My problems with the church come from the general philosophy that without the political organization of the RCC, Christianity would no longer exist. That seems to take some of the glory belonging to Christ and giving to an organization of men.

If Christ built His church on Peter and the Apostles and promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against it, does His church not have the right to say only they hold the fullness of Truth? That is not taking Jesus’s credit. It is pointing back to Christ’s promise for His Church.

Timothy said, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” My objective reading of that would seem to reason that Timothy is going directly against the idea of a pope, cardinal, bishop, or priest being required for things like weddings or confession.

You have to ignore this binding and loosing going on in Matthew 16 and Matthew 18, along with Christ’s mandate to His apostles to go to all nations and baptize, teaching everyone what He told them too. Why does Christ give His apostles the authority to confess sins in John 20?

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” (John (RSV) 20:22-23)

There is one mediator. However Christ has chosen to work through His Church.

Keep in mind, Timothy wrote that long after Christ ascended.

Also keep in mind the Bible did not exist until the Catholic Church held a few councils in the late 300s to compile it. True, all the books were around, but not all were accepted everywhere. So Christ’s Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, formally recognized all the inspired books.

I ask you, what did people do before the Bible existed? How did they know they were following Christ? Where does it say Bible alone?

“See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the** Catholic Church**.” Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).

And I would bet that without the teachings handed down by the Catholic Church, nobody reading the New Testament alone with no other information about Christianity would ever have understood The Trinity. There is a lot that all Christians take for granted today which was passed down from the apostles.

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