I think I'm done.

At least in online forums (forae). I spend most of my time at the Protest Warrior site in what they call “The 36th Chamber” and it’s not so bad as far as they go. But they are typical of the vast majority of Protestants I come across–they either have no taste for the debate, so they shut down and maintain their anti-Catholic prejudice; or they’re just condescending and rude; or, it’s impossible for them to see how baseless their accusations against the Church are; or finally, they continue to lie because they know they’re right, and therefore any means to the end of beating papists is justified.

Protestants believe they can sin grave sins all day long, but they’ll still go to Heaven. Then, out the other side of their mouths, they try to convince Catholics they’re going to Hell. Oh, and they’ll deny that they believe they can sin gravely and get to Heaven.

Show them a verse explicitly contradicting one of their sacred (golden) cows like James 2:24 or 1 John 5:16, and they’ll give you this convoluted story about why that means something totally different. Then they’ll preach to you about how we need to get to the “plain meaning” of scripture.

When you disagree over the interpretation of a verse, and go back to the ECF for a little context, they react wildly against what they say “isn’t scripture.”

They refute things we don’t believe.

Ex-Catholics who didn’t know squat about the Church now know everything.

They talk about the peace and love of Christ, but are the MOST condescending people on the planet.

I’m done, at least for now. I guess I’ll just rant impotently on my blog or something. As it is, this stuff is poisoning me–I honestly don’t believe Protestants are Christians anymore. The devil’s greatest trick isn’t to get people to deny his existence, it’s making people think they’re Christian when they’re not.

You are arguing with people whose mind is closed. The best thing to do is to pray for them, and focus your ministry on people who want to learn and are trying to figure out if they are on the right path or not. I hang out only here, because I not only learn a lot but people come here who genuinely are interested in changing their beliefs but have questions.

You are experiencing a side-effect of debates - those people want to win the argument at all costs, not search for truth. It’s a waste of time IMHO, help the souls who come here! :bowdown2:

One of the good things about this forum is that you come across Protestants that are not anti Catholic. Most are simply curious. Oh, there are a few crazies but they either get weeded out or slowly develop a respect for Catholisim. I don’t know if this website helps convert them, but I do think that reasoned explanations of our faith help to foster an appreciation for Catholic believes. The reason that you don’t see this on Protestant websites is because the more extreme members can all prop one another up. Instead of reasoned debate, the just engage in one upmanship.

Luckily, I have met many Godly Protestants, through this site and in my own life. If not, their own websites would make me think that they were all nuts!

As far as lying…I have noticed a couple of times that people who were obviously not Catholic tried to claim that they were. I wonder that these people have so little respect for their own beliefs that they feel that they must lie to get converts. I, personaly, could not follow a religion that condoned such underhanded practices. It is pretty disgusting. I believe, though, that most Protestants would condemn such activities and would probably respond that these people do not represent them.

[quote=montanaman]Protestants believe they can sin grave sins all day long, but they’ll still go to Heaven. Then, out the other side of their mouths, they try to convince Catholics they’re going to Hell. Oh, and they’ll deny that they believe they can sin gravely and get to Heaven.
[/quote]

Don’t forget the Protestants who believe that Catholics are going to Hell precisely because Catholics don’t believe they can sin gravely and get into Heaven.

[quote=montanaman]…
Ex-Catholics who didn’t know squat about the Church now know everything.

They talk about the peace and love of Christ, but are the MOST condescending people on the planet.

I’m done, at least for now. I guess I’ll just rant impotently on my blog or something. As it is, this stuff is poisoning me–I honestly don’t believe Protestants are Christians anymore. The devil’s greatest trick isn’t to get people to deny his existence, it’s making people think they’re Christian when they’re not.
[/quote]

All the more reason why you should stay and defend the Faith.:yup:

[quote=Annunciata]All the more reason why you should stay and defend the Faith.:yup:
[/quote]

Ditto…

Hang in there, be strong… fight the good fight, run the good race, remember your not doing it for what you gain, but for others that don’t know…

stick it out:thumbsup:

Life is quite amusing. Back in the 50’s, going to a Catholic school, I seem to remember being told that all non-Catholics were toast. I sort of felt sorry for my Baptist friends.

Down deep I never really believed that they were doomed just because they were Protestant.

Folks who continue to commit grave sins and think they are still saved, are in for a rude awakening. And folks who think all Catholics are toast, will get a bug shock too when they see their Catholic friends or acquaintenaces (if they have any) after they die, they will think they died and ended up in H*ll. :bigyikes:

or worse, they could be expecting to go to Heaven and end up in the pits below…:crying:

Some days after debating these guys I want to either become a full-time agnostic or a priest. Go fig. :cool:

If not for a few seemingly sincere Prots, I’d easily write them all off as Hellbound “useful idiots.” Some days, man, I tell you–the Dark Side is so tempting.*

*Naturally, by “Dark Side,” I don’t mean devil worship–just the nice, easy pessimistic worldview of the fundamentalist lunatics who think everyone’s going to Hell but them.

I would like to encourage you all to remain a presence on the prot boards. I was raised Catholic but left the church in my late teens, early 20’s due to a lack of real understanding of the faith. I was certainly one of those prots who thought you all were being deluded by false teachings.

What made me want to take a closer look at the church again was all the nasty ant-Catholic rhetoric being preached from the pulpit and tossed out in Bible studies. There are some outlandish allegations being promoted in prot churches and I wanted to know the truth, so I went to the sources to learn. But along the way I have run into some very devout RCC on some of the more anti-Catholic lists and sites who’s demenor and knowledge really impressed me and I knew in my heart of heart that the person HAD to be a Christian to be able to with stand such abuse and remain Christ like. And when you have a Christlike person in a debate shinning their light, you can’t help but see the people who are not Christlike for what they are, and then realize that perhaps what they are saying is to be questioned as well.

Many are reading and watching very closely. You may never know the seeds that are planted. And at the very least, you will begin to crack away at the perception that RCC don’t know their Bibles and can’t defend their faith.

So please hang in there and remember that even if it doesn’t appear on the surface that you are making a dent, you may in fact be causing all kinds of cracks that may just cause their whole foundation to fall.

We aren’t all bad. (Protestants.)

I will say this- my being here caused some eye opening emails being sent to me by fellow protestants kinda “throwing some jabs” my way for being kind to you guys. So I’m not naive to what you folks get from some Protestants.

I think I’m going to officially drop the “protestant” tag from my name- and say that I’m a Christian that attends a church that isn’t Roman Catholic. I’m not really “protesting” anything. Some things about you guys I do not understand, and wouldn’t feel comfortable doing myself (Dont ask… its a Mary thing…)

But I would never teach that you guys are going to hell. Salvation to me- is an idividual thing- based on faith in Christ. Many RCs have it, yet Many RCs don’t appear to have it. Many Prots have it, and many don’t appear to have it either. That’s between them and Christ.

From the other side of this issue- I’ve been told by RCs that I’m going to hell for not being a RC.

It goes both ways.

[quote=montanaman]Some days after debating these guys I want to either become a full-time agnostic or a priest. Go fig. :cool:

If not for a few seemingly sincere Prots, I’d easily write them all off as Hellbound “useful idiots.” Some days, man, I tell you–the Dark Side is so tempting.*

*Naturally, by “Dark Side,” I don’t mean devil worship–just the nice, easy pessimistic worldview of the fundamentalist lunatics who think everyone’s going to Hell but them.
[/quote]

Hi MM,
One thing that I have learned is that you cannot give a gift to someone who will not take it. I am on only a couple of n-C fora and I really don’t sweat them very much. I post what I know to be true and let it go. Most of what they have to say is the same old same old and it’s just boring as all get out. I attempt to discuss, but I don’t sweat it otherwise, because most of their opinions are come by via some preacher or teacher and they accept it as gospel, which means they follow their own defacto magisterium.

In the end, I stay on here and one or two there Catholic fora because I know that the few are really interested in the truth know where to find us…and I wanna be here to help if I can.

For heaven’s sake don’t get a down and discouraged. My favorite revenge on n-Cs is to pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet for them and not tell 'em, but it’s worked on some of the most hard core dudes i’ve met…and they never know.
Prayer is the key to ALL faith sharing, even while you are doing so.
Pax tecum,

[quote=ScottH]We aren’t all bad. (Protestants.)

I will say this- my being here caused some eye opening emails being sent to me by fellow protestants kinda “throwing some jabs” my way for being kind to you guys. So I’m not naive to what you folks get from some Protestants.

I think I’m going to officially drop the “protestant” tag from my name- and say that I’m a Christian that attends a church that isn’t Roman Catholic. I’m not really “protesting” anything. Some things about you guys I do not understand, and wouldn’t feel comfortable doing myself (Dont ask… its a Mary thing…)

But I would never teach that you guys are going to hell. Salvation to me- is an idividual thing- based on faith in Christ. Many RCs have it, yet Many RCs don’t appear to have it. Many Prots have it, and many don’t appear to have it either. That’s between them and Christ.

From the other side of this issue- I’ve been told by RCs that I’m going to hell for not being a RC.

It goes both ways.
[/quote]

Just so you know, Scott - I believe you are going to Hell for not being a Forty-Niner Fan.

OK - I am kidding. Kinda.

You have expressed it well. There are people who do not understand how to share information or how to disagree without being disagreeable. I have seen people change while participating on the site - you, Scott are a great example of that - in that they LEARN how to discuss and share without trying to hurt everyone. It is a step towards reconcilliation.

Some do not want to learn and others are afraid to learn. John Newman once said that to delve into history is to cease to be protestant. I believe that you need to combine that with conversation and sharing, like we do here.

Don’t throw in the towel montanaman!

When all else seems to fail…pray for them!

Remember, that you may not see their conversion yourself, but always remember that the Good Lord is working on them constantly. You’re just one instrument in the grand scheme of things (but an important instrument at that).

[quote=montanaman]At least in online forums (forae). I spend most of my time at the Protest Warrior site in what they call “The 36th Chamber” and it’s not so bad as far as they go. But they are typical of the vast majority of Protestants I come across–they either have no taste for the debate, so they shut down and maintain their anti-Catholic prejudice; or they’re just condescending and rude; or, it’s impossible for them to see how baseless their accusations against the Church are; or finally, they continue to lie because they know they’re right, and therefore any means to the end of beating papists is justified.

Protestants believe they can sin grave sins all day long, but they’ll still go to Heaven. Then, out the other side of their mouths, they try to convince Catholics they’re going to Hell. Oh, and they’ll deny that they believe they can sin gravely and get to Heaven.

Show them a verse explicitly contradicting one of their sacred (golden) cows like James 2:24 or 1 John 5:16, and they’ll give you this convoluted story about why that means something totally different. Then they’ll preach to you about how we need to get to the “plain meaning” of scripture.

When you disagree over the interpretation of a verse, and go back to the ECF for a little context, they react wildly against what they say “isn’t scripture.”

They refute things we don’t believe.

Ex-Catholics who didn’t know squat about the Church now know everything.

They talk about the peace and love of Christ, but are the MOST condescending people on the planet.

I’m done, at least for now. I guess I’ll just rant impotently on my blog or something. As it is, this stuff is poisoning me–I honestly don’t believe Protestants are Christians anymore. The devil’s greatest trick isn’t to get people to deny his existence, it’s making people think they’re Christian when they’re not.
[/quote]

I can’t stand talking to those types of people. They are full of hate.

I agree totally with your last line. A man would be better being an atheist than being a relitivist who claims to be Christian. Christ will spew those reltivists out his mouth.

Can you give a link to your blog?

Remember- many of them- like me- were born into it. Keep in mind, they make up the majority of Christians in America. There’s good and bad in all of our churches.

Honestly- you know what works on us best? Kill us with kindness. Don’t tell us that we are all a bunch of rebellious jerks, but let the teachings of Christ manifest itself in your life. If you tell us you think we are all going to hell, we’ll respond in a like manner. (And yes- that works both ways, I know.)

Many of us protestants are in failing denominations as it is. (Particularly the Lutheran, Episc, Anglican, and Prebyterian branches that are being invaded by liberals with a pro-gay, pro “choice”, anti-scriptural agenda.)

If you guys act like you have your “stuff” together, and act with kindness and compassion, you may be surprised to see people convert to Roman Catholicism. We may all not understand the Mary thing, or be a bit uncomfortable with the eucharist’s principles of trans-substatiantion, but privately- I think many Protestants would say that’s a small concession compared to some of the things happening at high-levels in their denominations. (Which is precisely why non-denominational protestantism is now the fastest-growing.)

I’m with Scott on this one. Only I don’t think the religions are failing as much as the core is calling to them and they are growing closer to the Mother Church.

Hang in there, Montana!

[quote=jimmy]I can’t stand talking to those types of people. They are full of hate.

I agree totally with your last line. A man would be better being an atheist than being a relitivist who claims to be Christian. Christ will spew those reltivists out his mouth.

Can you give a link to your blog?
[/quote]

Hey,

I recently wiped it clean, so there isn’t much there. But, here it is: lifeasacatholic.blogspot.com. I’ll probably be posting there much more–just as soon as I can break myself of the forum addiction. Seriously–it’s getting to be a problem.

[quote=ScottH]Remember- many of them- like me- were born into it. Keep in mind, they make up the majority of Christians in America. There’s good and bad in all of our churches.

Honestly- you know what works on us best? Kill us with kindness. Don’t tell us that we are all a bunch of rebellious jerks, but let the teachings of Christ manifest itself in your life. If you tell us you think we are all going to hell, we’ll respond in a like manner. (And yes- that works both ways, I know.)

Many of us protestants are in failing denominations as it is. (Particularly the Lutheran, Episc, Anglican, and Prebyterian branches that are being invaded by liberals with a pro-gay, pro “choice”, anti-scriptural agenda.)

If you guys act like you have your “stuff” together, and act with kindness and compassion, you may be surprised to see people convert to Roman Catholicism. We may all not understand the Mary thing, or be a bit uncomfortable with the eucharist’s principles of trans-substatiantion, but privately- I think many Protestants would say that’s a small concession compared to some of the things happening at high-levels in their denominations. (Which is precisely why non-denominational protestantism is now the fastest-growing.)
[/quote]

You’re an oddly helpful Protestant. And you’re right–I’ve made more inroads when I swallow my galactic ego than when I present airtight arguments.

Hmm…Don’t call 'em ignorant jerks. I’ll try more of that. :wink:

[quote=ScottH]Remember- many of them- like me- were born into it. Keep in mind, they make up the majority of Christians in America. There’s good and bad in all of our churches.

That’s true, although Protestantism only represents about a quarter of all the Christians on earth–something to consider when taking a broader view. :slight_smile:

Honestly- you know what works on us best? Kill us with kindness. Don’t tell us that we are all a bunch of rebellious jerks, but let the teachings of Christ manifest itself in your life. If you tell us you think we are all going to hell, we’ll respond in a like manner. (And yes- that works both ways, I know.)

I totally agree! :smiley:

Many of us protestants are in failing denominations as it is. (Particularly the Lutheran, Episc, Anglican, and Prebyterian branches that are being invaded by liberals with a pro-gay, pro “choice”, anti-scriptural agenda.)

If you guys act like you have your “stuff” together, and act with kindness and compassion, you may be surprised to see people convert to Roman Catholicism. We may all not understand the Mary thing, or be a bit uncomfortable with the eucharist’s principles of trans-substatiantion, but privately- I think many Protestants would say that’s a small concession compared to some of the things happening at high-levels in their denominations. (Which is precisely why non-denominational protestantism is now the fastest-growing.)

Once again, I agree. But, I see the move to non-denominationalism as yet another attempt to reinvent the Church, which is bound to fail in the end.

Many Protestants have trouble with certain Catholic teachings, such as those you cited, because they are surprised by the idea that God might do things apart from their understanding. After all, most Protestant denoms were founded on the idea that God’s word is “easy to understand”, which it isn’t.

C. S. Lewis when talking about teachings that non-Christians find hard to believe, such as the Incarnation and the Holy Trinity, cited that certain things that God has done/created do catch us off guard because we cannot understand them. He used the conjugal embrace as one of these things hard to understand or believe when first told about it. What child would conceive of such a way to keep the human race going? It’s the same with the teachings of the Catholic Church–they are too deep to be fully understood and require complete faith in the extravagant love of God that gives and gives and gives. While we human beings puts many limits on how much we will give in love.

Anyway, I hope you will explore Catholic teaching with the understanding that they are based in the love of God for us that knows no bounds and no limitations.
[/quote]

[quote=montanaman]Hey,

I recently wiped it clean, so there isn’t much there. But, here it is: lifeasacatholic.blogspot.com. I’ll probably be posting there much more–just as soon as I can break myself of the forum addiction. Seriously–it’s getting to be a problem.
[/quote]

Thankyou

Your not the only one that has this addiction. I think they need a CFA(Catholic Forums Anonymous) for us addicts.

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