ICE: 124 illegal immigrants released from jail later charged in 138 murder cases


#1

ICE: 124 illegal immigrants released from jail later charged in 138 murder cases

By Paul Bedard 3/14/16 Washington Examiner

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement has revealed that 124 illegal immigrant criminals released from jail by the Obama administration since 2010 have been subsequently charged with murder.

A Center for Immigration Studies report on the data from ICE to the Senate Judiciary Committee added that the committee is not releasing the names of the murder suspects…

Stunning.


#2

Considering that in 2015, according to the CDC, there were 16,121 homicides (of which 11,208 were firearms homicides), that is 0.85% of all the homicides. Would it be more life-saving to ban all illegal immigrants or do something about home-grown homicides or even firearms? Of course we can continue to blame illegal immigrants and focus on that 0.85% if it is deemed to be the responsible course of action. But when are we going to deal with the rest of the 99.15%?


#3

Clearly, they are not focusing on it, if they are releasing folks like those in question anyway.

Why does it have to be either or? There is no reason you cannot attempt to enforce existing laws on immigration, or protect your borders and citizenry, while also doing something about homicides, illegal firearms, and the like.


#4

I believe that the families, friends, colleagues and neighbors of the those murdered by these illegal aliens in question (BTW I’m not sure if your math concerns only those murdered in the article by illegals, or all murders committed in the US by illegal immigrants) as well as those killed by the home-grown sort would hope that both issues would be dealt with justly. Regarding firearms, those who have saved their own or other’s lives by such, or prevented other crimes would hope that the Constitutional right to bear firearms remains intact. You won’t prevent homicides by disarming law abiding citizens.

Mike


#5

It’s an interesting argument but why were we not enforcing the laws on immigration when it comes to Cuban asylum seekers - parents of Sens. Cruz and Rubio for example? What about the violations of international law on immigrants “working” for slave wages in certain port cities and on ships - ships many times exempt from US law by filing papwrwork in Carribean island nations - doing multimillion dollar business in the US? We should enforce but how about some perspective?

That 0.85% is actually an overestimate since I only figured in the murder rate for 2015, while the illegal immigrant murderer total was a compilation from 2010.

Also, I don’t believe law-abiding folks should have firearms confiscated however mentally ill and criminals must. Including perhaps an annual mental health checkup


#6

Where in the article did it say they were* illegally* released? If there is a court order, then the law mandates that they be released. If there is bond posted, ditto.

I admit I am not familiar with the Washington Examiner. I do not know if it is journalism a blog or some guy in his basement. But this particular article is just a regurgitation of a spiel from the Center for Immigration Studies. That place I am familiar with. The “research” and publish with a goal other than unbiased information. That’s fine, but let’s not pretend it’s news. It is a commercial selling a product. Maybe it is true, and maybe nine out of ten dentists really do recommend Crest.


#7

Look at the bright side. President Obama is reopening relationships with Cuba. That’s great news, as that is one of the primary barriers to deportation of criminals. Go Obama!
Right?:smiley:


#8

Yea, I have a feeling he is only doing this so more US businesses can send their junk to Cuba to be sold in stores there, they also probably want to open locations there as well, all done for profit sake, and/ or open Cuba to US tourism (which would not be a bad thing for the Cuban economy).


#9

Out of how many released?


#10

What difference does it make? They shouldn’t have been here illegally. How many of their victims would be alive if they hadn’t been here?

Mike


#11

They also should not be held illegally. Yes, the numbers do matter in making policy. Like so many things, this is a concept you either get or you don’t; rhetoric of discussion.


#12



Care to enlighten me?

Mike


#13

Okay, perhaps you are familiar with Twain’s quote on statistics. First, we must realize that the way statistic are portrayed are seldom even handed. One of the gripes is here is that, by golly, we should enforce the law and deport them all. Do you know that would actual be contrary to immigration law? Often, a person is entitled to a hearing to show whether he is, or is not, here illegally, and if he is here legally, if he did, or did not, commit an offense that is deportable. Bonds can be posted pending a hearing. Also, there are some who cannot be deported, as a matter of law, because we have no diplomatic relationship with them that allows deportation (I am talking to you Cuba). Yet anti-immigration sites will pick up only raw numbers, which if viewed in context is very small, and point to the tragedy they represent.

Such a technique is used selectively. For example, we would not suggest that we prison anyone arrested for a DWI for life, even though we could point to the tens of thousands killed every year that would be prevented by such a policy. But to be truly consistent we would have to point at maybe five thousand children killed since 2010 by those who were released after their first DWI.

Finally, this report failed to mention how many people were murdered by people we have deported, in their* home *country (most murders are intraracial and most victims know their killers), each of which is of equal value to God. So, do we discount them in our consideration? Perhaps we ignore them, as they are not Americans.

So, when articles use statistics like this, or even individual events, devoid of context, it is rhetoric. Do you know the adage, Never let a good crisis go to waste? It is used a lot for both gun control and deportation.


#14

Thank you for your detailed reply, let me offer mine in which I will lay out a few points:

  1. That people being allowed to come here illegally is not an option or matter of opinion open to debate, it is a matter of the moral law of which God is the author.

  2. Neglecting to secure the border is a grave offence against duty by the proper authorities, i.e. sinfull.

  3. That individual support of the above mentioned neglect is also sinful.

  4. That you cannot do evil that good may come of it. Rom 3:8

  5. A reply to your comment “Often, a person is entitled to a hearing to show whether he is, or is not, here illegally, and if he is here legally, if he did, or did not, commit an offense that is deportable. Bonds can be posted pending a hearing. Also, there are some who cannot be deported, as a matter of law, because we have no diplomatic relationship with them that allows deportation”

Regarding my first point:

  1. That people being allowed to come here illegally is not an option or matter of opinion open to debate, it is a matter of the moral law of which God is the author:

The primary duty of the government is to protect its citizens:

“Now the State has corporate rights of its own which are perfect; it has also the duty to defend its citizens’ rights; it consequently has the right of coercion in safeguarding its own and its citizens’ rights in case of menace or violation from abroad as well as from at home, not only against foreign individuals, but also against foreign states.” Source: Catholic Encyclopedia

“Thus it falls to government first and foremost to secure the peace of those within its jurisdiction. I don’t mean extended concepts of peace which hold that there is no peace when one person has problems that another doesn’t have, or when any person suffers. I mean freedom from physical attack, both external and internal—that is, the protective functions of the army and the police force.” Source: Dr. Jeff Mirus Catholic Culture

There can be no doubt that we have an illegal immigration crisis which is the result of unsecured borders and which has brought in its train crime that should have never been:

Illegal Immigrants Accounted for Nearly 37 Percent of Federal Sentences in FY 2014

Thus follows my second point:

  1. Neglecting to secure the border is a grave offence against duty by the proper authorities, i.e. sinfull.

It is clear had illegal aliens been prevented from entering the US the grave offences committed, as indicated at the link directly above, would have never happened.

My Third point:

  1. That individual support of the above mentioned neglect is also sinful.

I believe that I have argued conclusively that the US Government by its deliberate neglect of border security has failed in its God-given duty to protect its citizens, therefor it is sinning. To concur to this neglect would be cooperation in evil. QUAERITUR: Participation in the sins of other people

Which leads to my fourth:

  1. That you cannot do evil that good may come of it. Rom 3:8

All people of good will wish for the economic advancement of those in poorer countries but that cannot trump the inherent imperative duty of a government to look after the well-being of its own first. Besides as regards legal immigration the United States is most generous.

And finally point five:

  1. A reply to your comment * “Often, a person is entitled to a hearing to show whether he is, or is not, here illegally, and if he is here legally, if he did, or did not, commit an offense that is deportable. Bonds can be posted pending a hearing. Also, there are some who cannot be deported, as a matter of law, because we have no diplomatic relationship with them that allows deportation”*

Rather than give a lengthy reply I will simply post the whole article from the first of the two links in the original thread I posted above entitled “A Center for Immigration Studies” which deals with all your points:

"In response to congressional inquiries, ICE has released information on some of the criminal aliens who have been released by the agency since 2010. Specifically, ICE provided information on aliens who were charged with homicides after being released and aliens who were released multiple times by ICE.

The criminal aliens released by ICE in these years — who had already been convicted of thousands of crimes — are responsible for a significant crime spree in American communities, including 124 aliens charged with 135 new homicides. Inexplicably, ICE is choosing to release some criminal aliens multiple times.

CONTINUED BELOW:


#15

CONTINUATION OF ARTICLE.

Only a tiny percentage of the released criminals have been removed — most receive the most generous forms of due process available, and are allowed to remain at large, without supervision, while they await drawn-out immigration hearings. They are permitted to take advantage of this inefficient processing even though they are more likely to re-offend than they are to be granted legal status.

There is a human cost to the Obama administration’s careless catch and release policies for criminal aliens, euphemistically known as “prioritization”. These policies have led to 124 new homicides since 2010, and thousands of other crimes that harm citizens and degrade the quality of life in American communities.

124 Aliens Charged With Homicide After Release Since 2010

A total of 121 criminal aliens who were freed by ICE over the five-year period between 2010 and 2014 were subsequently charged with homicide-related crimes within that time frame. (Three more were charged in 2015; see below.) These 121 accused murderers were associated with 250 different communities in the United States, with the most clustered in California, New York and Texas.

These aliens were charged with a total of 135 homicide-related crimes after release. Two of them had homicide-related convictions even before they were released.

These aliens had 464 criminal convictions prior to release by ICE, ranging from drug crimes to DUI and other driving offenses to larceny and theft.

Another three aliens who were released by ICE during that time were charged with homicides during the first 10 months of FY2015, bring the total number of criminals aliens released by ICE who subsequently were charged with homicide to 124.

This tally does not include aliens who were released by sanctuary jurisdictions, nor those aliens that were released by local law enforcement agencies after ICE declined to take them into custody due to Obama administration prioritization policies. This list includes only those aliens that ICE arrested and then released.

The names of the criminal aliens were redacted by the Judiciary Committee, but the list presumably includes murderers like Apolinar Altamirano, an illegal alien who was arrested by ICE in 2013 following his conviction on local charges involving a burglary and abduction, but who was released on a $10,000 bond and permitted to remain free and elect to have deportation proceedings that would take years to complete. In January 2015 Altamirano shot and killed 21-year-old Grant Ronnebeck while he was working at a convenience store where Altamirano had come to buy cigarettes.

**Aliens Released By ICE on Multiple Occasions Since 2013 Commit Hundreds of New Crimes **

ICE reported that there are 156 criminal aliens who were released at least twice by ICE since 2013. Between them, these criminals had 1,776 convictions before their first release in 2013, with burglary, larceny, and drug possession listed most frequently.

The vast majority (124) of these criminal aliens were released in California. In addition, 16 were released in Arizona, six in Texas, three in Florida, two in Georgia, and one each in North Carolina, Massachusetts, Wisconsin, Washington, and Oregon.

These criminal aliens racked up a total of 243 additional convictions after being freed by ICE. The largest number (24) were for drunk or drugged driving, but they also included drug offenses, burglary, theft and larceny, and sex offenses.

ICE further disclosed that 47 of the recidivist aliens who were released at least twice had since been charged with an additional 106 crimes since their most recent release. So far, 20 have been convicted of crimes including burglary, dangerous drugs, DUI, fraud, and assault on a police officer.

**Why Were They Released? **

ICE has previously disclosed that 75 percent of the homicidal criminal aliens were released due to court orders, including the so-called Zadvydas cases, in which the alien’s home country would not take them back. The rest were released by ICE’s choice.

Of the 156 recidivists that ICE released at least twice, fewer than half (67) were released because their home country would not take them back, 16 were released on bond by an immigration judge, and 73 were released by ICE’s choice. ICE says it tried to contest only one of the releases ordered by an immigration judge — meaning that ICE essentially consented to more than half of these releases.

Of the 156, a total of 88 were released under “supervision”, 40 were released on bond, and 28 were released on an order of recognizance (without supervision).

In a separate communication, ICE provided a list of the countries that currently are uncooperative in accepting their deported citizens: Afghanistan, Algeria, Burundi, Cape Verde, China, Cuba, Eritrea, Gambia, Ghana, Guinea, India, Iran, Iraq, Ivory Coast, Liberia, Libya, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, Sierra Leone, Somalia, South Sudan, and Zimbabwe.

Criminal Aliens Released in 2014 Were Convicted of 2,560 New Crimes

In 2014, ICE released a total of 30,558 criminal aliens from its custody. These aliens had already been convicted of 92,347 crimes before they were released by ICE.

As of July 25, 2015, a total of 1,895 aliens have been charged with a crime after being freed by ICE. As of that date, 1,607 aliens had been convicted of a crime after being freed by ICE. The total number of new crimes for which these aliens were convicted after ICE released them was 2,560.

These 2,560 new crimes by aliens ICE released instead of deported in 2014 include: 298 dangerous drug offenses, 185 assaults, 40 weapons offenses, 28 sex offenses, 10 sex assaults, four kidnappings, two arsons, and one homicide. There were 1,044 traffic offenses included in the list.

Only 3 percent of the Criminal Aliens Released in 2014 Have Been Removed

CONTINUED BELOW:


#16

CONTINUATION OF ARTICLE.

As of July 25, 2015, only 974 (3 percent) of the 30,558 criminal aliens freed by ICE in 2014 have been removed. Presumably some of these aliens are again incarcerated or in ICE custody following conviction for the 2,560 new crimes after their release by ICE.

However, ICE reports that 28,017 still had a pending immigration case as of July 25, 2015, suggesting that many of these released criminal aliens will remain here for some time under Obama administration policies that allow them to elect for drawn-out immigration court proceedings rather than accelerated forms of due process and removal.

In addition, there were 1,567 of these released criminal aliens who have been allowed to stay in the United States.

ICE’s full response to the Judiciary Committee’s inquiries can be found here.

Improved Reporting on Immigration Status of Criminals Needed

The public should not have to rely on members of Congress to demand information from federal immigration agencies about criminal aliens. Immigration status should be reported on a routine basis by all law enforcement agencies, so that federal authorities can respond appropriately when an alien is arrested, and so that the public can determine the true public safety impact of immigration policy. Legislation has been introduced by Rep. Mo Brooks (R-Ala.) that would remedy this problem.

Mike


#17

I know of no bishop that has taught your belief. Maybe you heard this somewhere. There is an exception to obedience to civil law, which is not moral law. Even stealing may not actually be sinful in all cases, but this requires an understanding of moral theology and why things are sinful.

I never listen to what people here says is sin. I have enough listening to the Church, my own shepherds and my own conscience. In any case, it is not even contrary to civil law to attempt to change the law. I take it you are aware of what the Catholic Church in America has been teaching on the need for immigration reform, as well as what the Holy Father has said.

It is enough for me to obey all the traffic laws, tax laws and city ordinances. I do not judge the sin of others who fail in such things, as I have yet to obtain a state of sinlessness.


#18

Let me quote Moral Theology by Fr. Heribert Jone, a much respected book as noted at EWTN: *EWTN Experts: *Answer by Fr. Robert J. Levis on 10-22-2007

"Chapter II CIVIC DUTIES

I. Civil Authorities have, as their first duty, to provide for the common welfare of their subjects.

Therefore those in authority must, according to their ability,* avert all harm from their country* and promote its welfare…

Imprimatur: + John J. Wright, D.D. Bishop of Pittsburg Dec 8, 1961"

I never listen to what people here says is sin. I have enough listening to the Church, my own shepherds and my own conscience. In any case, it is not even contrary to civil law to attempt to change the law. I take it you are aware of what the Catholic Church in America has been teaching on the need for immigration reform, as well as what the Holy Father has said. .

Referring to what people say here is sin, I wouldn’t either unless they gave sources then I would make a decision.

Regarding the Bishops, who are calling for immigration reform, they have stated:

Earned Legalization: An earned legalization program would allow foreign nationals of good moral character who are living in the United States to apply to adjust their status to obtain lawful permanent residence. Such a program would create an eventual path to citizenship” Source: Catholic Church’s Position on Immigration Reform

If citizenship is granted to, according to some estimates, 12 million illegal immigrants it would mean the doom of this country as it would entrench the Democrat Party as the undisputed policy maker in the US, as immigrants mostly vote Democrat: Sources: Expanding Citizenship: Immigrants and the Vote; Washington Post: Poll: Illegal immigrants favor Democrats 54 percent to 19 percent

In light of these facts I must, most respectfully, disagree with the Bishops opinion, which is not binding. As to why it is not binding: National Catholic Register: Immigration: What Does the Church Teach?

It is enough for me to obey all the traffic laws, tax laws and city ordinances. ***I do not judge the sin of others ***who fail in such things, as I have yet to obtain a state of sinlessness.

Can’t argue with you there.

One more quote from “Moral Theology” then I’m outta here:

#204 -III. Citizens’ obligations embrace:

"1.*** Love of their country***, to which they owe protection and the opportunity to promote the common interests handed down to them by their forefathers.

This love for one’s country should manifest itself particularly by the furthering of its welfare and by living in harmony with one’s fellow-citizens. - One must especially beware of prejudicing the common good in favor of some particular class or clique."

Mike


#19

They are just coming here for a better life. :rolleyes:


#20

It may not be binding on you, but it is sure as heck acceptable to agree with them, while disregarding the opinions, proof-texting, underlining, bolding, statistical manipulation and arguments of Catholics that do not agree with them.

Your quote on civic duties did not contradict what I said and I am aware of both the responsibility and shortcomings of civic authority. If I were to be an absolutists on obedience, which I am not, I would put the bishops ahead of civic governments of which “only following orders” has proven to be most harmful.


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