'I'd do it again' former President Bush tells Grand Rapids crowd about waterboarding terrorists

Gotta gave GWB credit for not backing down from what he believes in:

"Former President George W. Bush was by turns affable, relaxed -- and deadly serious in his local appearance Wednesday.

"Yeah, we water-boarded Khalid Sheikh Mohammed," Bush said of the terrorist who master-minded the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on New York and Washington. He said that event shaped his presidency and convinced him the nation was in a war against terror.

"I'd do it again to save lives."

He also showed a lot of class, refusing to attack Obama who has repeatedly blamed everything on Bush and his administration:

"But he also made it clear he would leave political potshots at President Barack Obama to others, saying: "You are not going to see me in the public square criticizing the president."

"I'm trying to regain a sense of anonymity," he said in February.

"I didn't like it when a certain former president made my life miserable," he said, a reference to former President Jimmy Carter and his frequent criticisms of Bush

Bush also showed how important religion truly is to him:

Bush underlined the role religion played in his life in the White House, saying prayer gave him strength to go forward.

"I prayed a lot. I really did. I prayed before every major speech. I prayed before debates. It was a very important experience."

Unlike Obama, he praised American citizens:

Bush recounted the story of former East Grand Rapids resident Bill Krissoff, an orthopedic surgeon who pressed Bush at age 61 in 2007 to let him join the Navy as a combat surgeon in honor of his son. Marine Lt. Nathan Krissoff, 25, had been killed in a December 2006 roadside bomb explosion in Iraq.

Krissoff served a year in Iraq and now is serving at age 63 in Afghanistan, Bush said.

"America produces amazing people like Dr. Krissoff," Bush said.

mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2010/06/id_do_it_again_former_presiden.html

I gotta say, reading this was like a breath of fresh air to me. Bush sounds so classy and mature compared to the present occupant of the White House, a narcissistic whiner who blames everyone and everything but himself for anything that happens, and demonizes everyone who disagrees with him.

I voted for him everytime he ran for office Governor to President.

HOOAH! :thumbsup:

Yeah, I think waterboarding is a difficult controversy. I suppose if Bush really believed the terrorists knew vital informtaion that compromised the American people (and I'm sure he did believe that) waterboarding could be seen as the lesser of two evils.

Thanks to the OP. It is indeed refreshing. That is the way former presidents used to behave.

[quote="Marc_Anthony, post:3, topic:200603"]
Yeah, I think waterboarding is a difficult controversy. I suppose if Bush really believed the terrorists knew vital informtaion that compromised the American people (and I'm sure he did believe that) waterboarding could be seen as the lesser of two evils.

[/quote]

Bush only believed what was true - because waterboarding KSM did save American lives:

"The Central Intelligence Agency told CNSNews.com today that it stands by the assertion made in a May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that the use of “enhanced techniques” of interrogation on al Qaeda leader Khalid Sheik Mohammed (KSM) -- including the use of waterboarding -- caused KSM to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to thwart a planned attack on Los Angeles."

cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=46949

[quote="Brooklyn, post:5, topic:200603"]
Bush only believed what was true - because waterboarding KSM did save American lives:

"The Central Intelligence Agency told CNSNews.com today that it stands by the assertion made in a May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that the use of “enhanced techniques” of interrogation on al Qaeda leader Khalid Sheik Mohammed (KSM) -- including the use of waterboarding -- caused KSM to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to thwart a planned attack on Los Angeles."

cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=46949

[/quote]

Oh, I didn't deny that what Bush believed was true. I didn't know either way. :shrug:

Sad . Just sad.

[quote="stanmaxkolbe, post:2, topic:200603"]
I voted for him everytime he ran for office Governor to President.

HOOAH! :thumbsup:

[/quote]

Me too! The country could use him right now.!

This is surely the most disgusting statement ever by the leader of a democratic country. Torture is totally against every Catholic teaching even if we were talking about convicted criminals but here we are talking about mere suspects and subsequent events have shown that many of these people were totally innocent. Grave provocation does not justify a betrayal of all the civilised standards the West and Catholicism hold dear. Shame too on the UK for its support of this policy.

I hope ex-President Bush has been misquoted as I am sure does every other non-American who wishes the USA nothing but good. It is a mystery to most of us as to why such an intellectually challenged man could ever be elected President in the first place but if he really made these amoral and immoral remarks then that is plumbing new depths.

I guess you find this statement more “disgusting” than the thousands of innocent Americans who would have been killed, maimed and disfigured if KSM had not been waterboarded to elicit the information that Los Angeles was about to be attacked, and thus the attack was thwarted. KSM was never hurt in the waterboarding. I don’t consider waterboarding “torture.” Torture is pulling fingernails, attaching electricity to private parts, having limbs sawed off, etc. Water poured on one’s face is not torture. It is uncomfortable, even painful. But it is not torture.

Liberal thinking just makes no sense to me whatsoever. Liberals claim compassion and tolerance, but they never seem to show it.

God bless GWB for having the guts to care about his country more than he cares about the opinions of people. Who knows how many people can owe the fact that they are still alive to the courage shown by the Bush administration.

[quote="Brooklyn, post:10, topic:200603"]
I guess you find this statement more "disgusting" than the thousands of innocent Americans who would have been killed, maimed and disfigured if KSM had not been waterboarded to elicit the information that Los Angeles was about to be attacked, and thus the attack was thwarted. KSM was never hurt in the waterboarding. I don't consider waterboarding "torture." Torture is pulling fingernails, attaching electricity to private parts, having limbs sawed off, etc. Water poured on one's face is not torture. It is uncomfortable, even painful. But it is not torture.

Liberal thinking just makes no sense to me whatsoever. Liberals claim compassion and tolerance, but they never seem to show it.

God bless GWB for having the guts to care about his country more than he cares about the opinions of people. Who knows how many people can owe the fact that they are still alive to the courage shown by the Bush administration.

[/quote]

We are Christians, the ends do not justify the means.

[quote="josephdavid, post:11, topic:200603"]
We are Christians, the ends do not justify the means.

[/quote]

If KSM had actually been tortured, if he had been hurt in any way, I would agree with you. But he was not hurt at all, he was made very uncomfortable, and for that reason, thousands of lives were saved. I think the ends very must justify the means used in this case. Would it really have been better to have let all these people die horrendous deaths as we saw here in NYC?

Please explain to me why savings thousands of lives is wrong.

[quote="Brooklyn, post:12, topic:200603"]
If KSM had actually been tortured, if he had been hurt in any way, I would agree with you. But he was not hurt at all, he was made very uncomfortable, and for that reason, thousands of lives were saved. I think the ends very must justify the means used in this case. Would it really have been better to have let all these people die horrendous deaths as we saw here in NYC?

Please explain to me why savings thousands of lives is wrong.

[/quote]

We prosecuted Japanese in 1947 for waterboarding because we classified it as torture. Then we are hypocrites.

[quote="josephdavid, post:13, topic:200603"]
We prosecuted Japanese in 1947 for waterboarding because we classified it as torture. Then we are hypocrites.

[/quote]

Thats not true. We prosecuted excatly one Japenese soldier for water torture after world war II. The technique he used was much different than the one used at GITMO and he was also accused of beating prisioners, burning them with cigarettes and stealing their food

[quote="estesbob, post:14, topic:200603"]
Thats not true. We prosecuted excatly one Japenese soldier for water torture after world war II. The technique he used was much different than the one used at GITMO and he was also accused of beating prisioners, burning them with cigarettes and stealing their food

[/quote]

youtube.com/watch?v=wOStoGd5GZw

youtube.com/watch?v=7PjjMnT1xs4&feature=related

"Should any American soldier be so base and infamous as to injure any [prisoner]. . . I do most earnestly enjoin you to bring him to such severe and exemplary punishment as the enormity of the crime may require. Should it extend to death itself, it will not be disproportional to its guilt at such a time and in such a cause... for by such conduct they bring shame, disgrace and ruin to themselves and their country."
-- George Washington, charge to the Northern Expeditionary Force, Sept. 14, 1775

George Washington I thought we were talking about World War II -not the revolutionary war. Was KSM injured?

Again only 1 Jappanezse soldier was prosecuted for water torture and he was convicted of a lot more than that.

[quote="estesbob, post:16, topic:200603"]
George Washington I thought we were talking about World War II -not the revolutionary war. Was KSM injured?

Again only 1 Jappanezse soldier was prosecuted for water torture and he was convicted of a lot more than that.

[/quote]

Well then that makes it all better.:thumbsup:

I think the difficulty lies in the determination of what constitutes torture. The argument of “lesser of two evils” seems to fall short of Christianity. If water boarding is deemed to be evil in and of itself, that it should not be used as a means, no matter what the ends might entail.

I am not condoning or condemning the action itself, as I do not enough information on the effects (short and long) of water boarding. But, choosing the lesser of two evils is a dangerous game to play

Waterboarding is torture and one of the most terrifying experiences you can inflict on a helpless individual. As with all this cruelty, the people who puff their chests out and tell the crowded bar that they would order it without qualms are usually many miles from the front line. They are never put to the test but rely on other people to carry out the nasty stuff. The people who carry it out are either people previously brutalised or good soldiers who think they are doing their duty but who in reality are endangering their moral, spiritual and mental health, not to mention their immortal souls.

if I remember correctly, President Bush as a young man had the opportunity to go overseas and wage war in his country’s . However, like many others he chose to stay at home and let others do the fighting. I don’t blame anyone for making that choice–after all the Viet Cong were able to fight back–but I do think that having made that choice he should spare us the gung-ho man of action views.

[quote="Brooklyn, post:12, topic:200603"]
If KSM had actually been tortured, if he had been hurt in any way, I would agree with you. But he was not hurt at all, he was made very uncomfortable, and for that reason, thousands of lives were saved. I think the ends very must justify the means used in this case. Would it really have been better to have let all these people die horrendous deaths as we saw here in NYC?

Please explain to me why savings thousands of lives is wrong.

[/quote]

I'm not OK with torture. The framers of our constitution weren't OK with it either. Otherwise they wouldn't have drafted the 8th Amendment. There are no exceptions in the 8th Amendment, only "nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." I'm a conservative. "Conservatives" who defend this trampling of the Constitution are a big reason the country was handed over to the Dems, IMO. It's one thing to say that the people who used these tactics used them in the hope of protecting American lives. At least there's no problem with the logic of that statement. But the claim that thousands of lives were saved as a result of torture is an illogical arguement and simply unprovable. We have no way of knowing precisely who is alive today because of these tactics. You claim thousands. Why stop there? Why not claim millions? Millions sounds better than thousands. I have the same problem with people claiming millions of lives are saved by using condoms.

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