So quick question to anyone who is willing to toss in their thoughts…it is said that the devil and demons are fallen angels…correct? So that would imply they have free will and chose to go against God. So if/when we get to heaven do we also still have free will and can we be cast out? Eternity is a long time not to screw up I would think.
In my opinion it would seem so. Adam and Eve also were sinless and chose sin. I think an even bigger issue is that if angels that were in heaven chose sin, it would seem there was something missing in heaven that didn’t satisfy them.
I honestly don’t think the people who wrote that thought too much about it.
The angels weren’t given the beatific vision before the test.
So no, those who are there cannot. Once you are saved, you will never sin again.
If Angels can fall from heaven can we once we get there? Answer = No.
Our end is set once we have exhaled our final breath. We can no longer sin or merit.
The angels had perfect knowledge and complete freedom and thus their choice to rebel/reject God was final.
Yes angels have free will but once the choice is made for love or malice, it is forever. A human’s state is determined at the particular judgement at death.
NO. A person’s will is fixed at the moment of death. If a person is in the state of sanctifying grace, they will go to heaven either directly or via purgatory. If a person is in the state of mortal sin, then they go to hell.
The angels - both good and bad - cannot change their decision to serve or not serve God. Lucifer cannot repent, nor can St. Michael change his mind. Once an angel decides something, that’s it.
Is that in the catechism?
Indeed. Angels serve God and carry out His will to the letter. Those who rejected Him declared their disobedience. Non serviam! No exorcist has ever encountered a repentant demon. Neither has any angel fallen from heaven since the rebellion.
How in heaven would God create perpetually flighty spirits who might just say, “Nah, I don’t think so!”?
Apologies, I was relying on private revelation and should have made that clear.
How does having “perfect knowledge and complete freedom” make their choice final?
How do you know this?
Thomas Aquinas talks about this in the Summa, taken from several parts regarding the angels and their fall:
The angel is not a compound of different natures, so that the inclination of the one thwarts or retards the tendency of the other; as happens in man, in whom the movement of his intellective part is either retarded or thwarted by the inclination of his sensitive part. But when there is nothing to retard or thwart it, nature is moved with its whole energy.
As was observed above an angel has nothing in him to retard his action, and with his whole might he is moved to whatsoever he is moved, be it good or bad.
Consequently man’s will adheres to a thing movably, and with the power of forsaking it and of clinging to the opposite; whereas the angel’s will adheres fixedly and immovably.
Therefore, if his will be considered before its adhesion, it can freely adhere either to this or to its opposite, but after he has once adhered, he clings immovably. So it is customary to say …the angel’s free-will is flexible either opposite before the choice, but not after. Therefore the good angels who adhered to justice, were confirmed therein; whereas the wicked ones, sinning, are obstinate in sin.
Quantum physics, which I perform in my head when I’m bored.
Because they had full knowledge of just how evil their choice/act of rebellion actually was and the consequences of same. We don’t have the same knowledge. Do any of us really know just how evil our mortal sins are in the sight of God?
From the article I linked -
“The answer lies in the superior understanding of the angels’ mind. They understood perfectly from the outset the consequences of their choice, were they to reject God. They knew they had only one opportunity and that their choice was irrevocable.”
Not possible. Angels exercised their free will once with perfect knowledge, there is no turning back after that point. Since those in Heaven are like angels, the same applies.
No. Heaven is permanent and so is hell. Once you’re there, you’re there.
Angels were created, just as man. When given God’s plan, some angels rejected it. Without flesh, atonement for sin was impossible, so they were fallen with no chance for salvation. The angels that accepted gods plans are in heaven and will live forever in eternity.
One sign that we need angels; that we need redemption is the fact that we seemingly desire to make all divine or eternal things more human and temporal.
“Ya know, angels could have a mid-eternity crisis and decide to walk out the door.”
It’s both Church teaching and also philosophical reflection on knowing, the will, and what these things apart from a body would be. And that NOT in any type of Cartesian sense of what a res cogitans would be.
Angels were given one free will choice, after that their wills are fixed. They are not like us.