If baptism removes the stain of original sin then why......?


#1

Hypothetical question.

A man and women repent and are baptized, and before they can sin again, they are validly married and conceive a child.

If baptism removes the stain of original sin from our souls and original sin is passed down from generation to generation, why is their child born with original sin?


#2

Why would reproduction pass on grace?

-Rob


#3

Maybe for the same reason original sin is passes on?

I guess that my question is then, is original sin really removed, or is it just covered up at baptism?
If it is really removed, then how is it passed on?
If it is just covered up, then it would make sense that it would still be passed on.


#4

God infuses the soul into the body. Our parents do not create our souls nor do they transmit Original Sin physically.

The lack of sanctifying grace is the *state *of the soul when it is created-- that defect is a result of Original Sin.

We, as a race, were originally destined to have both supernatural and preternatural graces infused into our bodies and souls as our first parents did.

God does not infuse either, due to Original Sin.


#5

But it doesn’t. At least not sin, “in the proper sense.”

The Catechism affirms that (CCC 404), “By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state.”

What is being transmitted is a fallen humanity.

It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. And that is why original sin is called “sin” only in an analogicnal sense: it is a sin “contracted” and not “committed” - a state and not an act.

Note that sin in any positive sense is not being transmitted, nor is guilt. Original sin is sin, “in an analogical sense.”

Even after baptism we remain members of fallen humanity, and it is this fallen humanity which is passed on.

Original sin is rnot just covered up.

405 Although it is proper to each individual,295 original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.

-Rob


#6

It is removed. Sanctifying Grace is infused at Baptism.

See post #4. It is not a physical attribute, it is a spiritual attribute.


#7

Hi runandsew: Hope I can help here. Yes, the affects of original sin are removed, not just covered up. Remember, all of us, since Adam & Eve, do not receive the actual guilt of original sin (that is Adam and Eve’s alone), but rather the affects of it - i.e. the loss of the preternatural gifts of our first parents; a human nature ‘fallen’ to it’s natural condition, absent the elevating gifts originally given it by God.

Although, in this life, we retain the post-paradise human nature, Baptism restores us to grace and reconciliation with God, enabling us to attain heaven and eternal life.

As for the ‘passing on’, it may help you to see it as being passed on by the first parents of “humanity” and not just a biological affect of two people.

Parents, now, do not pass on original sin; all, alike, inherit it from the first parents of the human race. You might say original sin, and the inheritance of it, is a much bigger, broader, all-encompassing event than a person-to-person thing.

I’m not an academic or a theologian, so if I’ve confused you even more, just ignore my attempt…:slight_smile: :smiley:

God bless


#8

You have to remember, suprernatural grace is a gift from God He gave to Adam and Eve and which would have also passed to their posterity. When they sinned, God withdrew this gift, and no longer gave it automatically, but rather upon each individual deciding to come to Him.


#9

More from the CCC:

**404 **How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? The whole human race is in Adam “as one body of one man”. By this “unity of the human race” all men are implicated in Adam’s sin, as all are implicated in Christ’s justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state. It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. And that is why original sin is called “sin” only in an analogical sense: it is a sin “contracted” and not “committed” - a state and not an act.

405 Although it is proper to each individual, original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.


#10

A Protestant Pentecostal once said,“God has no grandchildren.” What he meant by this is that each generation must ask for and receive anew God’s gift(s). Simplistically one might say that through Baptism God gives each generation anew Sanctifying Grace, but it doesn’t go with the rights of inheritance when one is born to a set of parents who have it. Adam and Eve lost more than Sanctifying Grace. They also lost certain supernatural gifts that were never returned. We cannot inherit that which our parents never had when they pass on. Nor can they share what they don’t have. We are born spiritually defective.


#11

Hypothesis is flawed.

Original sin is passed on by virtue of human nature.

The parents may have been cleansed from the stain of original sin, but the newborn is not until Baptized.


#12

I am starting to understand better.

But in regards to your comment Church Militant, what if the baby crowns during birth, and it is baptized at that time, and then it withdraws again for an hour and then finally it is born. I say that it would be only the third person born without original sin. (behind Jesus and Mary being the first two)
I am sorry for I digress here.


#13

An analogy may be useful:

If I lived in Iowa, then took an action which resulted in me moving to California, where I subsequently had children, would my children be Iowans?

Not unless they took some action to become Iowa residents at some point.

Isn’t baptism simply our processed application to be residents of the Kingdom of God which our ancestors left long ago?


#14

More than two people have been BORN without original sin. John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit at the Visitation. He was born without original sin. Jesus and Mary were CONCEIVED without original sin. So that person would be another person born without original sin(who knows how many…4th?). I forget.


#15

Human sexuality is corrupted. So they do sin. However because it has been sanctified by the marriage bond, it is the best they can do, and so there is no point condemning them. The child will die however, and they knew that his end would be death as they conceived him.


#16

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