If evolution theory were true


#1

Some theists who believe in evolution theory explain these to me:
1)Why Genesis chapters of the Bible whose author is God were phrased in such a way that exaggerated God’s role in the creation of life especially human and fooled all the people for 1000 years?

  1. Why God, since He is omnipotent and can draw humans much closer to Him by creating human body from dust and give him life by a breath, instead allowed monkey become a man by pure chance or made human soul and planted it in the monkey.

#2

yeah, those are pretty silly arguments, abcdefg:):):slight_smile:


#3
  1. Genesis was written well before Jesus’ time. and there’s no doubt apostles believed in Creationism all their lives, Why Jesus, who is aware of what everyone is thinking, didn’t point out the mistake?
    3a) for Orthodox Jews: Genesis is dictated to Moses by G_d. and Moses certainly interpreted as creationism. Why G_d didn’t point it out and allowed the error to continue?

#4

very good points, abcdefg!:):):slight_smile:


#5

[quote=abcdefg]Some theists who believe in evolution theory explain these to me:
[/quote]

It is not about belief

[quote=abcdefg]1)Why Genesis chapters of the Bible whose author is God were phrased in such a way that exaggerated God’s role in the creation of life especially human and fooled all the people for 1000 years?
[/quote]

Exaggerated His role? What part of He created everything is exaggerated?

For an omnipotent, transcendent and eternal God I see no difference between the merest flick of His little finger against the first hydrogen molecule than actually picking up a piece of clay and mundanely shaping it. Perhaps the imagery isn’t as pretty especially for a pre-technological people but the details of how Creation was done is really not important.

If fact, evolution shows how much a part of Creation humans are

[quote=abcdefg]2) Why God, since He is omnipotent and can draw humans much closer to Him by creating human body from dust and give him life by a breath, instead allowed monkey become a man by pure chance or made human soul and planted it in the monkey.
[/quote]

Pure chance? I think (a) you misunderstand the evolutionary process. And (b) see answer above

oh and © I’m an Ape not a monkey :wink:


#6

[quote=abcdefg]3) Genesis was written well before Jesus’ time. and there’s no doubt apostles believed in Creationism all their lives, Why Jesus, who is aware of what everyone is thinking, didn’t point out the mistake?
3a) for Orthodox Jews: Genesis is dictated to Moses by G_d. and Moses certainly interpreted as creationism. Why G_d didn’t point it out and allowed the error to continue?
[/quote]

Because
(a) It isn’t important to the message and
(b) Even in the 21st century with the aid of molecular biology and genetics we have people who have trouble grasping the principles of evolution so why would Jesus or Moses muddy the waters by trying to explain such concepts to a pre-industrial people? :confused:

After all you could just as well ask why didn’t Jesus tell us about steam engines or penicillin? It certainly would have saved a lot of time and effort.


#7

[quote=abcdefg]Some theists who believe in evolution theory explain these to me:
1)Why Genesis chapters of the Bible whose author is God were phrased in such a way that exaggerated God’s role in the creation of life especially human and fooled all the people for 1000 years?
[/quote]

A small point, I accept evolution rather than believe in it. I see evidence for evolution so I have no need for belief.

As to your main question, firstly Genesis uses the language available at the time. What was the ancient hebrew for genotype, allopatric speciation or deoxyribonucleic acid? The required vocabulary to explain evolution was not available then. Genesis is scripture, not a science textbook, and is written using the vocabulary available in 1200 BCE - 100 CE.

Secondly, there are a large number of different interpretations of the Bible around at the moment. Many people are currently being “fooled” by incorrect interpretations. Why do you think that things would have been any different in the past? The Bible is written in such a way that it always has allowed many different interpretations, not just of Genesis.

rossum


#8

The deep rooted problem is that the THEORY of evolution assumes that existence is a given. The evolutionists do not even venture into answering how anything exist at all…fair enough they’re not metaphysicians but the problem becomes that the general acceptance of this theory completely ignores HOW anything came to be in the first place. Chrisian Creationism answers this question through revelation and theology. So when we see the VERSUS in these popular discussions, it’s not even addressing the same question.

Should I decide to splatter random acrylic paint on canvas and do that for several million years, the probability of splattering The Mona Lisa would have to be nil. I cannot swallow the probability of the human eye, a long stem rose, a giraffe are historical accidents of reshuffling of matter.

in XT.


#9

[quote=AquinasXVI]…Should I decide to splatter random acrylic paint on canvas and do that for several million years, the probability of splattering The Mona Lisa would have to be nil. I cannot swallow the probability of the human eye, a long stem rose, a giraffe are historical accidents of reshuffling of matter.

in XT.
[/quote]

You’re making a common error in describing evolution as a truly random process
It is in some respects deterministic

And whether on not you personally can swallow it the theory does provide a robust and elegant mechanism for eyes, roses, and giraffes.
An alternative explanation would have to fit the data as well or better to be considered


#10

Steve:

By deterministic, do you mean Eugenics? A complete system like an eye simply does not build one specific organ on top each other…it works as a whole from the start.

in XT.


#11

[quote=AquinasXVI]Steve:

By deterministic, do you mean Eugenics?
[/quote]

Certainly not. :eek: Eugenics is bunkum.

A truly random process is one where every possible combination is equal. In a deterministic process certain combinations are favored some are less likely. Some are guaranteed while others are impossible…like a rigged lottery.

Call it the Hand of God or call it the Laws of Nature but under evolution there is a clear picture of what is more or less likely to happen. Which is why I bristle when folks use the phrase “random” in a criticism and compare natural systems to watch making, abstract painting, or auto mechanics.

[quote=AquinasXVI] A complete system like an eye simply does not build one specific organ on top each other…it works as a whole from the start.

in XT.
[/quote]

Since there have been about 40 or more separate evolutions of an eye your statement is obviously not quite right. :wink:


#12

[quote=abcdefg]Some theists who believe in evolution theory explain these to me:
1)Why Genesis chapters of the Bible whose author is God were phrased in such a way that exaggerated God’s role in the creation of life especially human and fooled all the people for 1000 years?

  1. Why God, since He is omnipotent and can draw humans much closer to Him by creating human body from dust and give him life by a breath, instead allowed monkey become a man by pure chance or made human soul and planted it in the monkey.
    [/quote]

How would you explain to a copper/stone age man the theory of DNA , or there was an animal the size of a 2 story house that once lived and took cubic yard chunks out if it’s prey, or genetic mutation,or a man was made from mud(primal matter),etc?

You would write a book in a such a way and reveal just what he can handle until he can formulate hypothesis and reason.

So,* voila*, we have what we have now. No big mystery really.

Andy


#13

[quote=abcdefg]2) Why God, since He is omnipotent and can draw humans much closer to Him by creating human body from dust and give him life by a breath, instead allowed monkey become a man by pure chance or made human soul and planted it in the monkey.
[/quote]

What difference would it make? Why is one more conducive to enabling a personal relationship with God than another? How does being created directly from dust draw people closer to God than the other process?

By the way, we are made from dust–Star dust.


#14

What rossum, Steve and petra said. :smiley:


#15

First even the church says the bible is not literal.

And if it was, who is right Jesus or Leviticus?

===

Secondly evolution doesn’t explain God, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Which means that because God isn’t explained by evolution doesn’t mean that evolution says there is no God.

++++

And if we believe in free will, then all the stuff about everything being predetermined by God is by definition false, so do we have free will or is the horror of the Tsunami and Hitlers burning of the jews and the millions of aborted babies all the desire of God?

+++

be carefull when you are throwing out the bath water.

Peace


#16

I’m no scientist, but I have read a few things, both metaphysical and scientific, and what works for me is the idea that God “wrote the program” into nature that made it possible for various forms of life to emerge. I believe he guided the process as its Creator just as a modern programmer does on the computer. There’s no jumping in artificially in what God does, but rather a refining and molding of the processes of nature in order to bring about all He wished to exist. Does that sound about right to our scientifically-minded folks here? Our religiously-minded folks? Or am I way off either way?


#17

[quote=AquinasXVI]Steve:

By deterministic, do you mean Eugenics? A complete system like an eye simply does not build one specific organ on top each other…it works as a whole from the start.

in XT.
[/quote]

Actually, it doesn’t – the evolution of the eye is well understood. It begins as light sensitive spots, which give a survival advantage. A cup-shaped spot gives a further advantage – you can tell the direction to the light. A more severely-cupped spot becomes a primitive eye, and so on.


#18

[quote=Della]I’m no scientist, but I have read a few things, both metaphysical and scientific, and what works for me is the idea that God “wrote the program” into nature that made it possible for various forms of life to emerge. I believe he guided the process as its Creator just as a modern programmer does on the computer. There’s no jumping in artificially in what God does, but rather a refining and molding of the processes of nature in order to bring about all He wished to exist. Does that sound about right to our scientifically-minded folks here? Our religiously-minded folks? Or am I way off either way?
[/quote]

I would agree with you, except I think that He is involved intimately with the way things work. In other words, I don’t think that He made the rules and just sat back and let things run.

Peace

Tim


#19

This thread made me remember an old Issac Asimov short story…


The younger of two brothers is dictating to the other…

He starts describing the development of the universe, how the stars are born, the formation of planets, etc…

His older brother stops him and asks how long this story is going to be…The younger brother says something along the lines of ‘billions of years’, and that he has to get it all down, because God has revealed this to him.

The older brother replies that he only has 7 rolls of papyrus, so could you find a way to shorten it a little…?

The younger brother starts again…In the Beginning, God Created the heavens… etc.

The two are revealved as being Moses dictating Genesis to Aaron…Its been a while since I’ve read it, so I might have some of the details wrong, but it was a pretty good short. :thumbsup:


If only they would have had more papyrus, we wouldn’t be having this argument… :smiley:


#20

[quote=steveandersen]Because
(a) It isn’t important to the message and
(b) Even in the 21st century with the aid of molecular biology and genetics we have people who have trouble grasping the principles of evolution so why would Jesus or Moses muddy the waters by trying to explain such concepts to a pre-industrial people? :confused:

After all you could just as well ask why didn’t Jesus tell us about steam engines or penicillin? It certainly would have saved a lot of time and effort.
[/quote]

Is question of whether individual life begins at conception or birth important to you? origin of species is the same.
It’s taken as official Church position since St Peter and taught generation after generation.unlike flat earth which has no theology base, this one directly concerns God. what’s your understanding of the word “Tradition”. PP Piux X’s teaching condemns adjusting theology to suit contemporary culture. tell me what you think about it. use the translator from google to read it if you can’t understand Italian.
finally you’re not taking Catholicism seriously by specifying your religion as “catholic” instead of “Catholic”


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