If God exists, why do so many people doubt?


#121

I don’t think you grasped the point. Those Muslims who died “for a lie” did not think it was a lie when they died for it. They thought it was the truth.

How many people do you know who would die for a lie knowing at the time that it was determinably a lie, a made-up fiction or merely a fable?

I know of none.


#122

Okay, first of all some people might die for a noble lie they think helps humanity, but that’s besides the point.

I seem to have understood that you or deaconjeff made the point that if Catholicism is a lie, people would not have died for it. What I answered is proof that dying for something does not make it true


#123

That’s not the point (or not the full point). If Christianity were false the first generation of Christians would have died for something they knew to be false, not something they believed was true.


#124

Okay. Fair enough, but it doesn’t prove that they died for the truth, if anything it proves that they died for what they thought was the truth


#125

If the resurrection was false I see two probabilities

  1. The Romans/Jewish authorities moved the body (surely they would have produced it if that was the case?)
  2. The apostles stole the body (would they not have admitted it under persecution?)

Do you see any alternatives?


How do we know Catholicism is the right religion?
#126

Yes, there was no resurrection and maybe some apostles apostatized and admitted this. We don’t even know what happened to Peter or Paul, for example


#127

In that picture, I do believe there is no handle on Jesus’ side of the door. Yes, Jesus is knocking, but you have to open the door to let him in. You have to make the move to let Jesus in.


#128

Yes I know, but why? If He’s all-powerful why is He purposefully letting me doubt?


#129

If God did not give you free will to choose to love him or not, then you could not actually love him. Forced love is not love, God does not want slaves.


#130

Not good enough, I’m afraid. Why couldn’t He have fashioned me incapable of not loving Him or incapable of sinning? Just like He didn’t give me the capacity to breathe without air, does that make me un-free? What do you define as freedom? There are a lot of things we don’t even choose and are born with and yet somehow we consider ourselves free


#131

You miss the point. To be incapable of not loving is to be incapable of loving. Love is a gift freely given and to remove the option of being able to withold the gift means that the gift is not truly a gift.


#132

Those who are making the claims are telling us that they’re telling the truth. The eyewitnesses to Jesus’ ministry did not dispute the stories as truth. The early Church heard those claims of truth and accepted them.

In other words, there are assertions of truth by a number of people. (They have affiliations with the Church, but unless you have evidence that they’re falsifying the data – which you’ve said you don’t – then why would you assert that there is no evidence it’s true?)


#133

I beg to differ. If God put us in paradise right now and then filled us with the Holy Spirit nobody would reject Him. Why doesn’t He do that and instead chooses to threaten eternal torment? Are these the actions of a loving God? To deliberately deprive us of perfection?


#134

The eyewitnesses could have lied. If I tell you the moon is made of cheese and my eyewitnesses don’t dispute it, does that make it true?

Didn’t people say Muhammad split the moon at one point?


#135

You beg to differ? So you think that forcing a person to love you, without giving them the option of witholding that love, is actually ensuring that they love you?


#136

There’s a very simple explanation: free will.

If there were “proof” (in the mathematical sense–no one denies 2 + 2 = 4, for example) then everyone would be compelled to believe. There would be no free will.

To repeat an example I’ve given before, what if you could buy a genetically modified dog that would love you no matter what? Would this be preferable to a dog whose love would be conditioned by how you treated the dog? I think all of us would rather have a dog whose love has to be earned. It’s always iffy to anthropomorphize God, but I would think God feels the same way. If you “have” to believe in him, it’s not as good.


#137

If I as a human do it obviously not. But a being capable of filling whoever He wants with the Holy Spirit? Asbsolutely. Am I supposed to believe He’s doing me a favour by refusing to take me to paradise so that I can believe in Him and instead put me in this valley of tears?


#138

If He wants to play a game of who loves Him more without proof that’s fine, I fail to see why the losers should spend eternity in hell and then claim He’s infinitely merciful


#139

There doesn’t have to be to make the comparison. A large amount of people doubt both God’s existence and the effectiveness of vaccines, but that means nothing. They don’t rely on intellectual assent to exist or be effective.


#140

Yes, except we have testimony and actual proof to prove vaccines work, like the disappearance of all kinds of human and animal diseases. Not so with God


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