If God is "perfect..."


#1

Then why did he bother to make us at all? A perfect being has no wants, desires, or needs, so why spend so much time and work to make anything at all?

Was he bored?

Can perfect beings feel boredom?

These are things that some atheist friends are presenting to me, in an attemp to keep me from “wasting” my life.

These are also things that I’ve spent MANY hours pondering, but can only come to the conclusion that we don’t and never will know, but that isn’t the most satisfying answer…


#2

We were created to know and love God.

It’s for our benefit that we exist.


#3

[quote=Trelow]We were created to know and love God.

It’s for our benefit that we exist.
[/quote]

So, if God made us, and has existed forever, then he must’ve been doing things before we existed, because we certainly haven’t existed forever.

Maybe God felt unloved… but… he’s perfect.

I think the Bible contradicts itself way too much!


#4

[quote=kyle8921]So, if God made us, and has existed forever, then he must’ve been doing things before we existed, because we certainly haven’t existed forever.

Maybe God felt unloved… but… he’s perfect.

I think the Bible contradicts itself way too much!
[/quote]

How does wanting to be loved make you imperfect? Rather I’d say that it is the other way around.

As to His other “projects” we are only revealed what is relevant to our salvation.

Oh, no, the bible doesn’t contridict itself, if understood in the proper context.


#5

[quote=kyle8921]Maybe God felt unloved… but… he’s perfect.
[/quote]

First, you need to realize that there are things our puny brains cannot process.

Second, your problem is you keep applying time to God. See my other posts in your threads. Yes, God is perfect love so He created us so we could love Him, He could love us, and we could love each other.

Now, you imply that God was sitting around for a while feeling unloved. But there is no “awhile” because there is not time. It all happens at once. God is perfect love. Not God was perfect love or God will be, just “is.” There is no chronology with God. He couldn’t have felt unloved, because that implies a past for God and there is no such thing.


#6

[quote=Trelow]How does wanting to be loved make you imperfect? Rather I’d say that it is the other way around.

As to His other “projects” we are only revealed what is relevant to our salvation.

Oh, no, the bible doesn’t contridict itself, if understood in the proper context.
[/quote]

Something that is perfect needs and wants nothing, so no love would be needed.

I’m starting to think that God isn’t 100% “perfect.” Maybe over 2000 years of translations and changes have mixed up the meanings?

Is it like serious blasphemy to believe that God isn’t perfect?


#7

[quote=kyle8921]Something that is perfect needs and wants nothing, so no love would be needed.

I’m starting to think that God isn’t 100% “perfect.” Maybe over 2000 years of translations and changes have mixed up the meanings?

Is it like serious blasphemy to believe that God isn’t perfect?
[/quote]

How could He not be perfect? He’s the only reason we can call anything perfect. God is perfect by definition and then we measure imperfection from there.


#8

[quote=kyle8921]Something that is perfect needs and wants nothing, so no love would be needed.

I’m starting to think that God isn’t 100% “perfect.” Maybe over 2000 years of translations and changes have mixed up the meanings?

Is it like serious blasphemy to believe that God isn’t perfect?
[/quote]

If you have a great day, a perfect day if you will, and don’t see a awe inspiring sunset then is your day no longer perfect? Oh but how that sunset can just beautify your day even more.

Besides we can in no way understand God. We are very finite beings, whereas God is infinite. All we can do is try and express His grandeur the best we can muster. And hope to be that sunset that gives Him just little extra joy.


#9

[quote=kyle8921]Is it like serious blasphemy to believe that God isn’t perfect?
[/quote]

The Encarta dictionary defines blaspheny as:

  1. disrespect for religion:disrespect for God or sacred things, or 2. something showing disrespect for religion:something done or said that shows disrespect for God or sacred things

So, it depends on your intent. What will you say or do that disrespects God or his church because of this disbelief? What command of His can you dismiss if He is not perfect?


#10

[quote=Trelow]If you have a great day, a perfect day if you will, and don’t see a awe inspiring sunset then is your day no longer perfect? Oh but how that sunset can just beautify your day even more.

Besides we can in no way understand God. We are very finite beings, whereas God is infinite. All we can do is try and express His grandeur the best we can muster. And hope to be that sunset that gives Him just little extra joy.
[/quote]

But things can’t become MORE perfect! That would completely ruin the entire Bible, because that implies that at one time, God wasn’t perfect, but simply created us for love, thus making him perfect!


#11

God has need of nothing that he can not create. What can anyone give God that he could not give himself? We can give him something, our loyalty and our love.

-D


#12

[quote=kyle8921]Something that is perfect needs and wants nothing, so no love would be needed.
[/quote]

Love is an aspect of God’s nature, as is perfection. Anyway, God does not “need” our love as an infant “needs” the love of its mother. It’s not a dependency.
What’s more, wanting something does not preclude perfection. God’s desire to love us and to give us the opportunity to love him is a completely altruistic desire. He is not in want as we may be in want of food. I would suggest that a being whose nature is love would be imperfect if its desire was not to create other beings to love, and be loved.


#13

[quote=kyle8921]But things can’t become MORE perfect! That would completely ruin the entire Bible, because that implies that at one time, God wasn’t perfect, but simply created us for love, thus making him perfect!
[/quote]

I fail to see your logic.

Why can’t things becore more perfect? 100 pennies is a perfect dollar, but I’ll take 100 dollars over the pennies any day.

By creating somethign to experence His prefection (by knowing and loving Him) He some how diminishes His prefection?

You go and create all existance and come back, then I’ll tell you that “Well you would have to have been inperfect to do that!”

I appologize if I cannot explain this well, I have never struggled with these doubts, so do not have a methodology to reason to you, but I’m suere someone here can.


#14

[quote=Sgt Sweaters]Love is an aspect of God’s nature, as is perfection. Anyway, God does not “need” our love as an infant “needs” the love of its mother. It’s not a dependency.
What’s more, wanting something does not preclude perfection. God’s desire to love us and to give us the opportunity to love him is a completely altruistic desire. He is not in want as we may be in want of food. I would suggest that a being whose nature is love would be imperfect if its desire was not to create other beings to love, and be loved.
[/quote]

So, because He is perfect, he decided to spread the love and create other beings to share this love with?

It seems we’re getting somewhere here…


#15

GOD created us for COMPANIONSHIP.


#16

[quote=Sgt Sweaters] I would suggest that a being whose nature is love would be imperfect if its desire was not to create other beings to love, and be loved.
[/quote]

Much better than my explination. I tend to leave things to open. Thanks.


#17

[quote=Trelow]I fail to see your logic.

Why can’t things becore more perfect? 100 pennies is a perfect dollar, but I’ll take 100 dollars over the pennies any day.

By creating somethign to experence His prefection (by knowing and loving Him) He some how diminishes His prefection?

You go and create all existance and come back, then I’ll tell you that “Well you would have to have been inperfect to do that!”

I appologize if I cannot explain this well, I have never struggled with these doubts, so do not have a methodology to reason to you, but I’m suere someone here can.
[/quote]

What I’m saying is that to be “perfect,” you no longer require anything! No wants, needs, or desires, because you are perfect! My argument was that a perfect being needs nothing, and would not have had the desire to create, unless if alterted by an outside force.

I don’t really know, but I’m going to bed. I’ll pray to God to understand.


#18

[quote=kyle8921]What I’m saying is that to be “perfect,” you no longer require anything! No wants, needs, or desires, because you are perfect! My argument was that a perfect being needs nothing, and would not have had the desire to create, unless if alterted by an outside force.
[/quote]

This is false. God’s perfection is perfect love. What is love? Self giving. Without His creation, to what would He give Himself?


#19

That’s the smartest thing I’ve heard from anyone all day. :thumbsup:


#20

[quote=kyle8921]So, because He is perfect, he decided to spread the love and create other beings to share this love with?

It seems we’re getting somewhere here…
[/quote]

That’s what I was trying to get at, yes. Because he is perfect and has no needs, he has the capacity to act completely altruistically. There is absolutely nothing we can give to him except that which he has first given to us. C.S. Lewis describes it as a child who asks his father to give him a shilling, that he may buy the father a gift. Of course the father will be delighted at the gift, even though he paid for it, because it was an act of love. God is the one doing truly all the giving. Thus it cannot be construed that God “needs” something from us. Rather, his motives are completely and utterly pure: perfect.

So, in short, yes. He does not love in spite of being perfect, but loves because he is perfect, and therefore loves perfectly.


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