If Jesus is God, how would He not know when the end times are coming?

Mark 13:32

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

If Jesus is God and is the second person of the trinity who is one God, how would “the Son” not know the end of times? Why would scripture say something like that? Is there something I’m unaware of?

You confuse the nature of God with the persons within the Trinity.

Consider: when a son is born, is he born with all the knowledge of the human race?

Jesus says in the gospels that He does what he sees the Father doing, He says what the Father has given Him to say.

Jesus does not have a problem if the Father decides to keep some information to himself. Why should you?

@JM3, where in Daegus’s post does he mention having a “problem” with it, he’s just asking a legitimate question. My take on the matter is that Jesus had some things “veiled” to him, in other words he didn’t have the same divine faculties (perfect prescience in this instance) on Earth as he does in Heaven (in the same way, he had a foreknowledge of his death but didn’t know all the details around it).

  1. I did not say Daegus has a problem with it, only that he should not. It was a comment, not an accusation.

  2. The point I was trying to make is that everything that Jesus is, does and knows is given to Him by the Father. Jesus says this. It would be a good thing to meditate on.

Asked and answered at CAF Quick Questions section:

Q:
One of the attributes of God is that he is all-knowing. If Christ is God, why does he not know the end of days, and only the Father knows?

A:
The Catechism of the Catholic Church says: “By its union to the divine wisdom in the person of the Word incarnate, Christ enjoyed in his human knowledge the fullness of understanding of the eternal plans he had come to reveal. What he admitted to not knowing in this area, he elsewhere declared himself not sent to reveal” (CCC 474).

Hi Daegus,
This is just a guess, but perhaps Jesus’ human nature didn’t know. His Divine nature is omniscient and therefore would know. But I might be wrong.
Neil

JM3 I didn’t see it from that angle, it makes perfect sense. I stand corrected. I don’t like anything resembling someone being hit with a bible on the head simply for asking a question. I misread your intention. As for another answer to OP’s question, in light of earlier post that says Jesus knew but didn’t want to disclose it, if I’m not mistaken that’s called “mental reservation” whereby you know something that you don’t want other people to know and they’re supposed to understand that you indeed know the answer but don’t want to be asked further, if I’m making any sense.

I totally lost you at the part where I put in tildes.

Side note: I do believe Jesus is God and what have you but I was just curious because of this certain passage.

At first, I thought JMJ3 was accusing me of having a problem with Jesus not knowing, but after reading it over I see that that wasn’t the intention.

If I may humbly add my take on the matter:

In may instances (and I am NOT suggesting anyone on this thread has done or is attempting to do this), particularly atheists, Jesus is “attacked” for supposedly showing “too many” human attributes - one of which is supposedly “not knowing”. Christ demonstrates this on a number of occasions.

Remember: Christ and God and the Holy Spirit are One. The persons in one God-head.

One must take into account that Christ had an appointed mission, and like all missions, thinks need to happen IN AN ORDERLY FASHION so that the mission “succeeds” and is not “compromised” ahead of time.

Some examples:

  1. Christ is walking and his robe is touched by a woman with a bleeding disorder and she is immediately healed.

Christ responds by asking (I am paraphrasing): Who touched me? Of course, Christ, as also one person in the Trinity, KNEW who touched him - he didn’t have to ask that question. But his question served a point of educating not only the reader of that verse but also those who witnessed the woman’s healing. Keep in mind, by simply asking does not mean he did not already know.

  1. Christ raises Lazarus simply by walking to Lazarus’s tomb, prays, and Lazarus appears. Yet, a blind man begs for sight, and Jesus then spits into a bit of dirt in his hands, forms a paste, puts it over the man’s eyes, and then the man’s sight is returned.

Now, why, you might ask, would prayer raise the dead but it takes spit and mud to make a man see? Quite simply, it doesn’t REQUIRE anything other than God’s intervention. Again, the manner in which Christ chose to exercise his power was of his own choosing and timing.

  1. “Only the Father knows”, Christ responded when pressed for the end of the world. Does that mean that CHRIST DID NOT KNOW?

Of course not. But by saying only the Father knows, Christ is also saying that HE knows as well, as he is part of the Holy Trinity along with the Father and the Holy Spirit. He simply did not allow THEM to know he knew as well by virtue of him being part of the Trinity.

So please don’t read too much into situations where Jesus leads those around to conclude he may not know something at a particular time.

Also to add, its an affirmation that all things happen by the will of the Father. Its not the will of Jesus when He will come again, but the will of the Father. By saying “only the Father knows,” it means that it is not up to Him to decide on the day and time.

Read Acts 1, the time of his return is under the authority of the Father alone. Jesus simply either choses to not know or the Father has not decided the time yet.

I agree. I believe that Jesus did not know of his FULL Divinity until He ascended into Heaven.
You will remember that in Jesus last days on earth, in the Garden of Gethsemane, He asked his Father : “My Father, if it is possible let this cup pass from me; yet, not as I will, but as you will”. On the Cross, Jesus said, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”.

@Daegus, sorry couldn’t respond sooner. That passage from the Scriptures is one I’ve myself wondered about, and when I asked about it on another forum, somebody mentionned “mental reservation”. From what I understood, it means using an equivocal term or sentence (one open to many interpretations) so as to not disclose something that you don’t wish to disclose. It’s not lying per se, but simply not stating something you know, withholding that information. “Mental reservation” is but a conjecture to try to make sense of that passage, not a definitve interpretation. It’s just one of many, many Bible verses, where I’ll have to say, I don’t know for sure what it means. With all the different answers you’ve gotten so far, what are your ideas?

According to George Lamsa…

lamsabible.com/Lamsa%20Bible%20New%20Testament.htm

Lamsa Bible Online - English Peshitta Translation (NT)

This is Dr. George Lamsa’s famous Peshitta New Testament English translation (click here for OT). I believe it is the best complete translation of the Peshitta. From “The Deluxe Study Edition of the Modern New Testament from the Aramaic”, by Dr. George M. Lamsa.

Jesus actually said…

“My God, My God, for this I was spared.”
-or-
“My God, My God, for this I was kept.”

Changes everything, don’t it??

Another verse that doesn’t hinge on translations as much, but is still relevant to this thread is Mark 10:17-18 – As Jesus was starting on his way again, a man ran up, knelt before him, and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to receive eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked him. "No one is good except God alone."

Jesus almost seems to blatantly claim that he is not God, yet when I have brought this verse up here before… someone made the very astute point that he actually does not claim that he isn’t God at all. He doesn’t exactly say he’s not Good, now does he??

First, I am NOT calling anyone on this particular thread a heretic. So please do not take offense when I mention the word heresy. To be a heretic, the intention on the part of the believer/non-believer must be a knowing one - ignorance (NOT stupidity - big difference) may be sufficient enough to evade the heretic label.

Second, the Catholic Church teaches that, although it is one of the Mysteries of Faith that we will, as humans, never fully understand or appreciate the union of the three persons in one God-head, that failure to understand does not prevent it from being true.

Third, in his encyclical - Mystici Corporis Pius XII stated: "“By means of the Beatific Vision (the sight of God in Heaven), which He enjoyed from the time when he was received into the womb of the Mother of God, He has for ever and continuously had present to Him all the members of His mystical Body, and embraced them with His saving love.”

In sum, Christ knew from the moment he was conceived that he had come to die to redeem man’s sins. If one denies that he knew this from the outset, the next question would be: who told him and when? That would have been a pretty extraordinary event if it had happened DURING Christ’s ministry on Earth. I feel certain the Gospels would have told some account of this great “awakening”. Remember - even when he was just a child in the Temple, HE was teaching learned scribes about the law, and HE remarked that he was “about my Father’s business” when asked why he had not left with the caravan.

Thus, He knew who He was . . . He fully knew who He was.

Jesus couln’t have answered the question because the future is malleable. Our actions, ie sins, prayers etc…, determine when there is an end.

As for when Jesus was on the cross and said “Why have your foresaken me”, this is the first line of Psalms 22. Jesus was quoting scripture as an illustration that he had fulfilled scripture.

Tradition maintains that Christ’s professed ignorance of this day and hour is hyperbole (overstatement that is not literal). It is a figurative expression that this mystery lies beyond the scope of what the Father intends the Son to reaveal. The Father and the Son share everything in common, including thier divine knowledge.

**All things have been handed over to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son wishes to reveal him. (Mt 11:27)

The Father loves the Son and has given everything over to him. (Jn 3:35)**

Its ridiculous for a Catholic to claim that Jesus didn’t know he was God while Jesus walked on Earth. In scripture, Jesus claimed to be God while he walked on Earth. Remember that the the term “Son” can be referring to either Jesus’ human nature or his Divine Person. So Jesus obviously was referring to his human nature not knowing the day, but that was at the moment he said it. Later in scripture Jesus says he is given all that the Father has, which means at that point Jesus in his human nature now has all that knowledge and power of his Father. But remember that Jesus in his divine person always had that knowledge and power from eternity to eternity.

The way you worded this sounds a lot like you’re implying that Jesus has 2 separate natures where one nature knows something the other doesn’t, or perhaps I’m not reading what you wrote correctly.

Could you please clarify?

Daegus,

If the poster that you just questioned implied that Christ had two natures, he is correct: Catholic dogma is that Christ DID have two natures - a divine one and a human one.

But, he was unique among men in that he had two natures but was only one person.

THAT is what we refer to as the “hypostatic union” - two natures combined into one person.

It is, of course, still a mystery to man as to how exactly that union “functions” or “works”.

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