If masturbation is gravely disordered

Then how come I have heard that it is permissible for a woman to masturbate after sex if she has not achieved orgasm? Isn’t something that is gravely disordered always wrong?

“I have heard” is not a legitimate argument/discussion. Show us the revelant documents and the context, please.

I don’t have any…I have heard. I don’t know if it is valid or not. I was wondering.

I’ve heard that car engines stop working because they have demons in them.

My grandmother told me that if I chew gum it will get wrapped around my bones.

Just hearing something does not make it so.

If you wonder, look it up. I imagine that if you go to the library and check out something like Christopher West’s Theology of the Body that you can get some idea of what the Church actually does say on the subject. . .

The teaching, from what I’ve read, is that partners may use mutual stimulation as foreplay, and that the husband may help his wife acheive climax manually after intercourse. I’ve not heard specifics about singular masturbation

Classic example of the old game that we used to play entitled “Telephone.”

In his book “Love and Responsibility” the late (GREAT) Pope John Paul II talks about the love that a husband must implore while “tempering his orgasm” so as to reach a climax with his wife. However, it is noted by the Holy Father that many times, due to our biological make up the husband may reach his climax before the wife does. The husband should then do what is loving and bring his wife to an orgasm after the act. The wife is not to bring herself to orgasm as this is (simply put) masturbation and is a self serving act, whereas the husband doing this is a self donating act of the husband givng to his wife.

You can read more about it on page 28 and following of this document

When spouses touch themselves or each other during the martial act (including after the male finishes in the proper manner), it is not considered to be masturbation. When they touch themselves or each other outside of the marital act, it is masturbation. I believe the source of confusion is that you are thinking of the colloquial definition of masturbation, which means any touching of genitals. The Church would define it differently. And because the Church gives the prohibition on masturbation, it is free to define masturbation as it pleases. Just as when a state statute prohibits something, it also gives a definition for that something which may or may not be coextensive with the colloquial understanding of it.

Wow. I was just breezing through this discussion (took me by supreme a bit) and just read what you quoted from PJPII and it is incredible in it’s simplicity and honesty. An even greater man than I was aware of. Thank you for posting that!

Maybe I’m dense but I don’t find anything in that passage referring to manual stimulation. The man’s “act of tenderness” is linked to the virtue of continence which would suggest delaying ejaculation rather than providing manual stimulation.

JSA

Regarding the wife who does not experience climax during the foreplay or the intercourse…one can read a very Orthodox Catholic Theologian:

twotlj.org/G-2-9-E.html

Go to section 1 h iii

there one can read what is permitted and not…

C’mon, you guys are being way too tough on hellopeople. He’s asking legit questions. I see that he’s been subsequently addressed on the substance, but still.

You should read the things that PJPII has wrote in the Theology of the Body. Amazing what this celibate man knew about sex and marriage.

The passage that I wrote or from the link? I am not sure that the linked file is a full text of PJPII’s “Love and Responsibility” as it has been a while since I have read that specific file. Forgive me that I am at work and do not have a chance to read it all. I will try to do a search and find the exact writings of his as it relates to this, however, what I have put in the earlier post summarizes what he has said about this issue.

ie. he may masturbate his wife…no one calls it this on this forum, but that is in effect what it is.

What way is there other than manually? I don’t think I could talk her through it.

The husband should then do what is loving and bring his wife to an orgasm after the act.

If not manual stimulation, how else would the husband bring his wife to orgasm after the act?

Surely you have more imagination than that? :wink:

Maybe he does but I don’t. What in the world are we talking about here?

The mouth.

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