If Protestantism dies out totally.................


#1

Will that prove that the Catholic church beyond ANY shadow of a doubt is the true church?

Sort of like the Inquisition, what if this is just a really chaotic and rough time for the church? And after a long enough time the church will ride the tidal wave out and restore itself to it’s former glory?

The church has already survived 400+ years of it so the church must have something good going for it right?

Just some food for thought.


#2

I don’t believe that protestantism will die out, at least not in the near future. Although it is true that officially it did not begin until the reformation, certainly there has been no shortage of those who have protested the Catholic Church since it’s inception. In times past there have simply been fewer in number.


#3

If Protestantism died out there would still be Eastern Orthodox. And if that religion died out there would still be Jews, Muslims, Pagans, Atheists, etc.


#4

In the latest information Protestantism in the US has lost about 12 percent down to about 52 Percent from 64 percent and the Catholic Church has remained about the same at 25 percent


#5

I don’t think there will ever be proof, and I’m not sure there should be. Where would that leave faith???


#6

Sorry to say it people but I live in the Bible Belt and as long as this is still here we are gonna have Protestants for a VERY long time. Unfortunately they are nabbing a lot of our fellow brothers and sisters due to lack of education and apathy. I met a woman just yesterday who said that she was “raised” Catholic and gave me a look of pity. I wanted to yell “Its not my fault you didn’t care or pay attention lady!” but I didn’t. It is hard to talk to evangelicals around here because they all say “well so and so was a Catholic until they got saved and now they really love the Lord!” its a shame. I’m glad God pulled me out of the evangelical trap.


#7

The numbers game is dangerous territory. After all, the numbers on Catholics are pretty deceptive. When you stop counting people who like to lable themselves Catholic and start looking for people who hold the Catholic faith you find that only 20% of that 60+ million (in America) are Catholic. Protestants are just fine leaving their current church for one that more closely reflects their beliefs. Cradle Catholics, no matter how heterodox, still have genetic Catholic guilt and can’t bring themselves to make the honest move and just leave. So if all we do is watch the numbers, all those non-believing “Catholics” will continue to cause scandal and give Protestants fuel for their fire through their poor behavior (we’re all sinners, but some of us are more ashamed of that than others) and claims as to what Catholics can really believe if they want to.


#8

ANDREAS

Your remarks are sad but on target.

Many are called to be Catholics but few are chosen.


#9

I think Christianity in general will continue to polarize…there will be some who will come to recognize the fullness of truth within the Church and will become Catholic. Others will go the opposite direction and join up with the fundamentalist/evangelical/non-denominational groups at the other end of the scale, the furthest away from Rome. There won’t be anyone left in the middle–traditionally, the main-line Protestants. Lutherans, Methodists, etc. are losing members left and right these days. It’ll eventually be an “either/or” Christian world–either you’re Catholic or you’re a non-denom fundamentalist.


#10

The non-denominational craze occurring among the Protestants is sowing the seeds of the destruction of Protestantism. Each little non-denominational “church” is really nothing more than yet another new Protestant denomination. There is no such thing as a non-denom that is free from doctrine. Protestantism is doomed to continual fragmentation and division. Because of the non-denominational phenomena, we will soon have 100,000 new Protestant denominations in the world.


#11

The Protestant non-denominational craze is driven in part by the engine of Protestant seminaries and colleges. These institutions pump out way more “pastors” than there are flocks to shepherd. And some of these institutions have been churning out women “pastors” in droves too, with very few places for these newly ordained women pastors to go. After all the effort and sacrifice of obtaining a degree from a Protestant seminary, the man or woman with the newly minted degree finds out that he or she is going to have a very rough time ever finding a paying position in an existing Protestant denomination. The ambitious among those with their new degrees see an opportunity of founding their own non-denominational church, or relocating to a place with a growing population and getting a franchise in one of the fast growing new Protestant demons such as Calvary Chapel.

Many pastors in existing Protestant denominations are also chaffing at the bit in their existing jobs, because they are forced by their congregations to preach what they no longer believe. These experienced pastors sometimes will get fed up with having to preach a lie, and go out and found a non-denominational Church where they can be their own authority. When the experienced pastor leaves his church, there is a line of people that have graduated from Protestant seminaries that are eager to accept the open position. Of course, the charismatic Pastors that form new non-denoms often carry away half the congregation from their existing church, so the vacant position cannot funded with the same financial benefits. That leads to frustration for the newbie pastor, and fuels incentive for the newbie pastor to get in on the non-denominational craze while the getting is good.


#12

[quote=Matt16_18] Of course, the charismatic Pastors that form new non-denoms often carry away half the congregation from their existing church, so the vacant position cannot funded with the same financial benefits. That leads to frustration for the newbie pastor, and fuels incentive for the newbie pastor to get in on the non-denominational craze while the getting is good.
[/quote]

I personally have seen this happen. I belonged to a Southern Baptist church 13 years ago (about 4 years before I became Catholic). The minister got into a tiff with the church elders on how he was running the church, so he left to start his own church, taking half the congregation with him (including myself).


#13

[quote=Count Chocula]Will that prove that the Catholic church beyond ANY shadow of a doubt is the true church?

Sort of like the Inquisition, what if this is just a really chaotic and rough time for the church? And after a long enough time the church will ride the tidal wave out and restore itself to it’s former glory?

The church has already survived 400+ years of it so the church must have something good going for it right?

Just some food for thought.
[/quote]

Hmmm…that seems to amount to saying, that if something is unique, and sees off the “competition”, its survival give a proof of Divine approval of it.

Would that not mean, though, that if (say) all religions in Saudi Arabia - apart from Islam - died out, the sole survival of Islam would prove that it was Divinely approved ?

That would suggest, that religions which - at least on the face of it - seem to be incompatible with each other, are equally valid.

And suppose Christianity - for example - later returned to Saudi Arabia, after being extinct there; this would cause a headache or two: it would suggest, that two non-identical religions can be equally valid, in the same place, at the same time. I can’t see even the most generous-minded & large-hearted Muslim or Christian agreeing with that. I certainly can’t see the Magisterium agreeing, not in a billion years.

I don’t think one can reason from facts in history, to whatever theological significance they might have - if this is correct, the fact of a religion’s survival can’t be used as proof of its meaning in the mind of God. As evidence of what it may mean, perhaps - but not as proof of what it means. ##


#14

If Islam or Bhuddism all of a sudden took over the world then it may just prove them to be accurate but I was thinking more specifically along the lines of proving that the RCC is the pillar and bulwark of truth and that hell won’t prevail against it etc… kind of stuff and that if it outlasts it’s Protestant comp. (Lord knows in 400+ years it’s had PLENTY of time to fall yet hasn’t) it will prove it to be the right church right?


#15

The psychology of Protestantism

I could be wrong, but it seems that a lot of non-Catholic Christians simply have a totally different outlook on faith than do Catholics.

They don’t believe in a central office like the Vatican, because they don’t see such a thing in the Bible. So, on the one hand, they reject the Catholic Church as such as being non-Biblical, and they are perfectly content to see many churches all over the place. That landscape is what they see in the Bible.

And, they switch church affiliation at will, perhaps start a “church” in their own homes, for the same reason.

In other words, what their “take” on Catholics is that what we call the essense of truth is to them the essense of error – sad to say.


#16

[quote=BayCityRickL]The psychology of Protestantism

I could be wrong, but it seems that a lot of non-Catholic Christians simply have a totally different outlook on faith than do Catholics.
They don’t believe in a central office like the Vatican, because they don’t see such a thing in the Bible. So, on the one hand, they reject the Catholic Church as such as being non-Biblical, and they are perfectly content to see many churches all over the place. That landscape is what they see in the Bible.
And, they switch church affiliation at will, perhaps start a “church” in their own homes, for the same reason.
In other words, what their “take” on Catholics is that what we call the essense of truth is to them the essense of error – sad to say.
[/quote]

You pretty much nailed it - the error of all Protestantism is the sin of Pride - Satan’s personal favorite I might add.


#17

[quote=Count Chocula]Will that prove that the Catholic church beyond ANY shadow of a doubt is the true church?
Sort of like the Inquisition, what if this is just a really chaotic and rough time for the church? And after a long enough time the church will ride the tidal wave out and restore itself to it’s former glory?
[/quote]

I don’t see how the dimise of Christianity which is on the fast track in the US would prove anything about the Church. The growth of the Church represents a more meaningful baromter.I quite agree that the numbers game is a trap.I am talking about a growth in Mass attendance and public profession of Faith. And the triumph of Christian priciples in our culture. The problems we experience are largely an American (and European) problem. The Church is alive and very well in Africa and Asia.

[quote=Count Chocula] The church has already survived 400+ years of it so the church must have something good going for it right?
[/quote]

The way I figure it the Church has been under duress for the better part of 2000 years. There have been ups and downs, but be careful of the ups. Every real crisis in the Church has come on the heels of a high period. We know that the Church will triumph. We have the Lord’s Word on it. If these hard times send us to the pews to pray, maybe that is why we have to experience them.
Our Lord said, “Take up your cross and follow me.” He didn’t say strap on your rollerblades.
He said,* “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many. How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few.”*
So, I thinkin that we shouldn’t be looking for the wide highway. The going is easier but…

Keep praying.

Charlie


#18

I can’t imagine that Protestantism is going to die out any time soon and probably never will. The Church has always had Christians organizing against it and teaching their own version of Truth, and now they have their own Lego Block style magisteriums. I can’t imagine the dynamics will ever again be like they were over 500 years ago when the Universal Church had an unprecedented power - good or bad - over the whole of western Christendom. That had its disadvantages, but overall the Church was far better off before being split into a million pieces and arguably, western civilization was somewhat safer. If it wasn’t for the thought and culture of the Catholic Church, western civilization would probably have been altogether lost - and probably to the same enemy that wants to force it into “submission” today. Here we are, Christians divided against each other, while the culture of death is hurriedly dismantling our walls of defense.

It still comes down to trusting the Lord. Of course we can’t save ourselves and He promises that He won’t abandon us. There will always be some Christians that just don’t agree with the Magisterial teaching and they’ll always have a following that will be free to disagree or go to war to earn that freedom. Yes, we’ll have division and our enemies will continue to attack, but so will the church continue exist, while protecting and proclaiming the Truth of Christ.


#19

[quote=Count Chocula]Will that prove that the Catholic church beyond ANY shadow of a doubt is the true church?

Sort of like the Inquisition, what if this is just a really chaotic and rough time for the church? And after a long enough time the church will ride the tidal wave out and restore itself to it’s former glory?

The church has already survived 400+ years of it so the church must have something good going for it right?

Just some food for thought.
[/quote]

That would not be a good argument to prove the trueness of the Catholic Church since non-Catholic critics would likewise say that while there used to be Buddhists in India, now we only have Hindus there, therefore does that prove that Hinduism is the true religion? At most it will only prove the falsity of Protestantism.

Besides, we don’t see Protestantism disappearing in the foreseeable future, especially the fundamentalist brand of Protestantism.

What we do see now is Protestantism splintering further until finally all that will be left is one Protestant denomination per member, that is there would be as many Protestants as there are denominations.

Gerry :slight_smile:


#20

Scripture says there will allways be false prophets. So, as a result, here will allways be protestants or other groups like them fullfilling divine prophecy.

Christ’s body, His Catholic Church, has been fighting herisey ever since Christ founded it. We have 2,000 years of fighting schismatics and herisey and I see no end to it.

The good news? Don’t worry about it or loose sleep over it. Christ promised to be with His Church till the end of time so we know Christ and His Catholic Church will not only survive but win. It has survived and will according to God. To study history is to become Catholic.

Not all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved. This will surprise many who saved themselves “before” Christ passed judgement on them!:eek:


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